On Fri, 25 Jan 2013 07:15:46 -0800, Art Harris wrote:
You are correct. I phrased it incorrectly.
75 Watts is 25% over the maximum of 60 Watts, or,
125% of the maximum.
Seems to me, 25% is within the safety zone of ????
(what is the safety zone).
I find it hard to believe the safety zone is zero.
I suspect it's more like double the rating (i.e., it's
probably more like 60 x 2 = 120 Watts) but I'm just
That's why I asked.
A couple of posters shared their experience.
I find fixtures even with the correct bulb age over time,
parts get brittle and start to fall apart.
I definitely would not put a 75W incandescent in a 60W fixture.
The risk is no where near the gain. The risk is that your
house burns down and the insurance company denies your claim.
Find a CFL that doesn't stick out so much or go for the LED.
Oh, good grief, here we go again. The insurance
scare stories at it again. Every time this comes up, I've
asked where all the examples of this kind of thing
happening are. Where are those denied claims?
There are what 100 million homes
in the USA? If insurance companies were actually
denying claims for things like that, it should be easy
to come up with examples. I mean if they are gonna
deny that, then they might as well deny a claim for
the house burning down because you left a pot burning
on the stove. Or because you smoked in bed.
So, example please?
On Fri, 25 Jan 2013 13:51:27 -0500, Dan Espen wrote:
I personally doubt it will cause a fire - but I must say that I'm not
sure (which is why I asked).
Nobody cited anything specific - and - well I guess the onus is on me to
figure out what the ratings actually mean.
I presume (but this is an assumption), that a 60 Watt rating means it can
handle at least double that forever - but I am clear that this is just an
I hear all the houses-burning-down scare stories - and I don't deny that
(because I don't know) but without any facts to back them up - that
assumption is based on similar logic to mine (i.e., wild eyed guesses).
Of course, the house-burning-down is a MUCH SAFER assumption - so I'm not
poo pooing it - I'm just saying that nobody who said the house would burn
down has shown any proof of it actually happening even once. Of course,
with 150 million homes (or so) in the US, I'm sure houses burn down from
all sorts of things - but I can say I've got a handful of these lamps,
all running the 75 Watt Halogen Par-something bulb - and the only thing I
see so far is that they do get rather hot.
Anyway - I'll stick to the rating being half the actual limit until/
unless someone shows proof otherwise. BTW, I don't disagree with the
statement that the thing will slowly deteriorate with higher heat - but
again, nobody showed proof so that's just an assumption also.
Still - it was a good idea to change out the plastic socket for ceramic
and to move the switch to the cord - so these I will explore.
Well, what *would* you expect to happen when insulation that has been dried up
embrittled by excessive heat flakes off of the wires, resulting in electrical
arcs between the
I certainly cited something specific -- what happened to the kitchen light
fixtures in my house
as a result of the previous owners doing *exactly* what you are proposing to do:
bulbs in fixtures clearly labelled "60W max".
Did you not read that? Or did you just decide to ignore it?
What on earth would make you think that? "60W max" means what it says. The
WILL be damaged if you use 75W bulbs.
You know, I'm beginning to think that you're not very smart.
my bedroom light failed this way. I awoke to go to bathroom and
realized my pillow must of fallen to the floor so i turned the light
switch on as i walked out of room, figuring my eyes would have time to
adust by the time i got back......
however i saw a super brite flash, turned the switch off and didnt get
any more sleep.
the 50 year old wires insulation was crumbling and started arcing to
the fixture, the breaker didnt trip but a nice shower of sparks came
down on the bed.....
needless to say i replaced all the fixtures in the house most were
showing the same detoriation
Your house, do what you want. We don't really give a fuck!
Consider this though. The fixture was tested and the highest rating
after testing was 60 watts. If the manufacturer could have squeezed
another 15 watts out of the fixture, they would have.
Might not cause a fire.
Might just cause insulation failure with contact from wire to metal
parts. You might only electrocute someone.
Or you might just have the fixture fail in a relatively short time.
And another great idea - the circuit rating is actually "half the actual
limit". You can replace the 15A breaker on the circuit with a 30A one.
Nothing will happen. (Where is the proof otherwise.)
And if fixture insulation fails and wires short you might not even have
the inconvenience of a breaker trip.
An electrician has "seen many overheated light fixtures". A couple other
people have seen damage from overlamping. I have seen damage.
But go ahead. You may win the Darwin Award.
Before you adopt your made-up "half the actual limit" idea, why don't you
read the UL Standard on the subject which details the test procedures and
assumptions that UL uses. It's UL Standard 8750 and applies to
permanently-mounted light fixtures. Any electrical inspector will have a
copy or you can buy it from UL or CSA since it's harmonized with Canada too.
I found that 293-page "Luminaires UL 1598" standard here:
Looking for the wattage-rating test procedure, I scroll through
to page 138 where section 14 seems to cover temperature limits.
Section 14.1.3 Rated wattage of lamp used
Table 14.1.2 Maximum temperature limits
Reading that section over and over, I am not illuminated as to
what excess safety limits are in a 60 Watt rating. I can see it
has everything to do with temperature - since Clause 188.8.131.52
appears to be all about the temperature test box; but I can't
really tell what the safety factor is from reading this document.
Does someone with more acumen than I have insight into where
in that document it spells out the safety factor inherent in
You've been trying for a couple days now to get somebody to tell you it's OK to
put a 75W bulb
in a fixture labelled 60W max. You obviously refuse to accept the idea that the
rating is there
for a reason, and you obviously intend on doing what you want to do, regardless
of the UL
listing, regardless of all the advice you have received to the contrary -- so
why don't you just
shut up and go do it?
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