Texas 85 mph - Don't work well with fog

[Vic Smith]

Been lucky I guess. Only a few times I was caught in heavy fog or rain/snow on the interstate. Seems very few people passed me when I put on my blinkers and went as slow as about 20 mph. But I could see maybe 15-30 feet. Must be terrible to find yourself in zero visibility. Only thing I can figure with the big Texas pile-up damage is folks went from good visibility into a wall of fog that was already pile up with crashed vehicles. When I hitch-hiked from Norfolk to Chicago in the '60's I picked up a ride with dead-heading trucker late at night. Mack pulling an empty flatbed. Never forget it. Our talking was what kept him from nodding off. Penn turnpike near Beaver Falls. Fog for about 20 miles, maybe 50 ft visibility. He never went below 80. Took a year off my life. I said goodbye at his first fuel stop, out of the fog. But I wanted away from him.

[homeowner]

A good driver will pull on the shoulder and park when the fog gets as bad as it did in Texas. I'd rather lose a few hours, than get killed or my car wrecked. Then again, when the fog is that bad, I avoid getting on a freeway, or get off the nearest ramp when it begins. Some drivers have no brains.

[Pete C.]

The accident may well have begun with someone who pulled to the shoulder and parked and thus when the next person suddenly found themselves in dense fog they followed the tail lights directly into that stopped vehicle. Fog can appear very suddenly and a road that had great visibility can have a fog bank blow over it from an adjacent area in seconds. The area in question is reported to be straight and level, a

75mph zone and have some adjacent marsh areas where the fog likely rolled in from. Exits are miles apart.

[gpsman]

No, they won't. The shoulder isn't much safer, nitwits hit cops on the shoulder with their lights going in clear conditions, day and night.

"Good driver" choices are limited to getting _way_ away from the road, and that possibility can be extremely questionable. Fog can be so thick you can't even see the fog line much less an exit, much less where you're going without the benefit of the lights of other motorists (whatever little help they may be on the road, you miss them when they're gone).

If you get caught out there in extremely limited visibility there are often no good answers. If you don't know what you're talking about stop trying to provide them. -----

- gpsman

[homeowner]

Merely speculation, unless you have personally spoken to the person who was first in the crash. I'd probably to be the first to intentionally drive off the road into a corn field if the fog was that bad. I'd rather pay for a tow than get into a crash like that. A marsh..... well, that's another story!

By the way, I think 75mph is TOO fast for any highway, anywhere, anytime. I also learned when I took drivers ed (about 44 years ago), that a person should maintain a distance of one car length for every 10 mph of travel, and should also drive according to conditions. The max speed limit is only for perfect conditions. In average fog, I rarely exceed 25 mph. In heavy fog, even slower.

Maybe Texas wil learn something from this and lower the speed limit. Then again, I have my doubts. Speed limits are mostly posted so cops can make money, not for safety. I bet they also have a minimum speed limit, which I think is rediculous. I had a cop pull me over once and tell me I was going too slow. I pointed to the wet road and said "would you rather I cause a car wreck?". I was doing around 35 in a 55 at the time, with no posted minimum speed. I didn't get a ticket, but the young cop seemed to think he was a real smart ass. I came close to asking him how long he has been driving, compared to my 45 or so years, but decided to just shut up and listen, since I was not in the mood for a hassle.

[Ed Pawlowski]

Only stupid drivers would park on the side of the road and become a target. Smart drivers will take the exit ramp and get to a safe place.

[Ed Pawlowski]

I drive that speed every day, sometimes more if the conditions are right. Speed has to be adjusted to fit the conditions.

Pretty much agree with that. You should not over drive your visibility.

Going too slow is just as likely to cause an accident. Good tires can handle wet road easily at 55. Snow or ice is different.

[The Daring Dufas]

Ed do you remember a Cadillac or across the board GM option for an infrared heads up display for driving in fog? I haven't searched for it but I'll be darned if I don't remember seeing something like that shown in one of the Popular Science/Mechanics magazines. I wonder if anyone else recalls such a thing? O_o

TDD

[Ed Pawlowski]

Yes, I sort of remember something like that, but recall it seeing deer in the road too.

[harry]

There is an anti-collision radar due to be sold on European cars soon.

Apparently unaffected by fog.

[Stormin Mormon]

For sure, too easy to get hit from behind.

In Drivers Ed, they told if you had to pull over in fog, use the four way flashers.

Christopher A. Young Learn more about Jesus

.

Only stupid drivers would park on the side of the road and become a target. Smart drivers will take the exit ramp and get to a safe place.

[clare]

That's fine if you can see to GET to the exit. You need a good GPS to tell you if there is one close when you can't see 10 feet in any direction.

[George]

For sure. Thats why in some areas with say winding roads they realized it makes sense to provide free towing service off the highway for breakdowns because a car on the shoulder is an accident waiting to happen. The Schuylkill Expressway in Philly area is one, PennDOT has a number of tow trucks in service just to get vehicles off the road/shoulder. Clearing such vehicles makes sense.

[Pete C.]

Getting well off the road, and turning off your lights so other drivers do not follow your tail lights thinking that's where the road is would be sensible.

Total nonsense, may have been correct in the days of the Model T, but certainly not for any modern auto.

More nonsense. Following distance needs to account for your reaction time and the potential delta between your braking distance and that of the vehicle in front of you. This does not need to take speed into account since speed affects both your vehicle and the one in front of you. If you are in a big truck and following a small car you need more following distance since the vehicle you are following can stop in a shorter distance than you can. Conversely if you are in a small car following a large truck you need less following distance since you can stop in a shorter distance than the vehicle you are following.

Then you are causing a hazard and need to get off the road. If you cannot drive at the minimum speed limit for the road (45 for most highways) it's time to get off the road entirely.

This has nothing to do with Texas, the same sudden fog accidents happen regularly in other states as well.

Minimum speed limits are typically posted on major highways, usually they're 20 mph below the upper limit. In pretty much every state if you are traveling below 25mph (your heavy fog comment) you are legally required to have a slow vehicle triangular reflective sign on your vehicle (parades exempt).

[clare]

Decent ice and snow tires can handle snow at 55 without any problem. Ice is a bit different!!! When we were allowed to run Carbide studs, the old Valiant held the road better on ice than on sloppy snow. When I changed from the old Valiant to the Dart they outlawed studs - and the Dart was totally useless on ice.

[Pete C.]

And if you are in a place that is far from the next exit, get as far off the road as possible, turn off your lights so other vehicles don't follow your tail lights thinking that's where the road is, and get out of your vehicle and further away, preferably beyond guardrails or other barriers.

[George]

Me too. 75 is no issue for modern cars.

You see that all of the time. Someone decides to go 20 under the speed limit when conditions don't require it and everyone trying to figure out how to get around them.

[harry]

The drivers aren't thinking simultaneously.. It is a cascade effect. The first driver has finished his thinking process before the second one starts his. So you are the one talking crap.

[harry]

The design of the car is neither here nor there In the event of accident,you have ten times the likelyhood of being dead at 75 rather then 35 mph.

[Harry K]

The problem is that if one _does_ slow down to a reasonable speed they will be way slower than everybodyi else.

Very few people have any concept at all of driving on slick, snow or ice and especially in fog. They do not slow down enough and never allow enough space. Even on dry pavement the spacing is about 1-2 seconds between cars in the "parades" and they don't increase it if they do slow down.

Harry K