Tankless Hot Water Heaters

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snipped-for-privacy@pacbell.net says...

My Takagi draws little enough current that if the power is out, I can run it off the pocket-sized power inverter I keep in my car. No added cost for that, I already had the inverter anyway.
--
snipped-for-privacy@phred.org is Joshua Putnam
<http://www.phred.org/~josh/
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My Takagi draws little enough current that if the power is out, I can

Odd the Takagi website doesnt list current consumption,'
In any case those who vent up a chimney are probably low power users in comparison with direct vent models that must use a blower & motor for exhaustion of course chimney type often need chimney upgrades because the high BTU models are perhaps 3 times the BTU of a average forced air furnace.
this makes me wonder about that big flue exhausting heated home air 24/7 all winter long... humm I wonder the same about my standard hot water tank and furnace, must be like leaving a big window open permanetely.
wonder if anyone has ever done studies of flue heat losses?
Because oif this awhile ago I had decided to go with forced vent standard high BTU tank.....
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snipped-for-privacy@aol.com wrote:

Don't most current building codes require outside combustion air these days?
--Yan
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CptDondo wrote:

many furnaces and most standard hot water tanks use room air, a bad idea if you ask me.
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Thank you to everyone that contributed on each board. While I haven't totally made up my mind about what I will do, and I have plenty of time to do that thankfully, I am leaning (due in part to opinions on these newsgroups) to staying traditional, with a 50 gallon high efficiency, Gas, Hot Water Heater with a long warranty. Being that there is mostly the wife and myself I think that will due us even when we have the grandchildren over.
Again thank you for each of your input and I will continue to follow this thread and also do research into past question regarding tankless water heaters. Could be by the time I actually build things will change again but for now I'm changing my mind, back to the Gas Tank model. The reason is that even with the cost savings of the tankless I'm very concerned that they will not hold up over as long a time as tanks have proven to last and apparently the manufacturers don't necessarily think they will either by the warranty length they assign to them so that's my reasoning for changing my mind.
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[snip]
Having experience with both tankless and conventional, I much prefer conventional. Consider this:
We have a standard large tanked water heater which serves kitchen, laundry and two bathrooms. When we renovated the back half of the house we added a small cabinet in the new hobby room with a second water heater tank inside which serves only the adjacent master bathroom. This gives us hot water within seconds.
( We also did a few other unconventional things such as adding an outdoor sink and shower so that you can clean up and shower after working in the garden or coming in from fishing. Since the "utilities" side of the house (with the shower, plus nearby well pump, central air conditioners, etc.) is behind a 6' concrete block and tile wall privacy is not a problem.)
With this experience, during any future renovation I'd consider another hot water tank, perhaps a low-boy unit or attic unit, for almost-instant hot water for one or more of the other bedroom suites -- Regards --
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snipped-for-privacy@aol.com says...

It's in the PDF manual, towards the end.

Haven't done a formal study of it, but while testing for drafts I blew smoke around our water heater on a cold day, didn't have any noticeable convection up the flue. But our flue is mostly horizontal, definitely needs the blower.
Our long-range plan is to convert it to use outdoor combustion air once we get around to the finished cabinetry in the pantry where it sits.
--
snipped-for-privacy@phred.org is Joshua Putnam
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snipped-for-privacy@pacbell.net says...

Remember that when you do eventually need to replace it, you probably won't be re-doing the gas plumbing, wiring, or potable water plumbing for it. You'll just remove the old unit and install a new one.
Your N-069M-OD sells for under $1,000 on-line. My Takagi is under $900 these days. Replacement is simple enough you can do it yourself if local code allows. (OK, be honest, how many people take out the required permits to replace their tank water heaters?)
--
snipped-for-privacy@phred.org is Joshua Putnam
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: snipped-for-privacy@pacbell.net says... :> :> It works OK. I realize that at this point I'm on my own and I just hope :> it lasts a real long time because I don't presently like the idea of :> spending big bucks to fix or replace it. :> : :Remember that when you do eventually need to replace it, you probably :won't be re-doing the gas plumbing, wiring, or potable water plumbing :for it. You'll just remove the old unit and install a new one. : :Your N-069M-OD sells for under $1,000 on-line. My Takagi is under $900 :these days. Replacement is simple enough you can do it yourself if :local code allows. (OK, be honest, how many people take out the :required permits to replace their tank water heaters?)
Good point. I suppose if I still live here and my Noritz goes bad I might well opt for a similar tankless to replace it since the gas and plumbing are all right there, and they were AFAIK professionally and well-installed. To put in a tank water heater would be problematical because it would have to stand away from the wall at least enough to clear the dryer vent. The contractor who authorized all this told me I couldn't do that because I would not be able to strap and support the tank. This is earthquake country.
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Dan, there are straps made specifically to anchor water heaters not located directly aganst a wall. In fact, most of the installations I've inspected did not bear directly on the wall in back of the heater. In seismic D1 & 2, you only need to strap in upper and lower 1/3 to withstand movement, and there are many ways to accomplish this.

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Gary KW4Z wrote:

1) Demand- 2 shower heads, 8 body washers in one shower and trying to fill a whirlpool ain't going to cut it. 2) Location- some one in the northern part of the country where service water comes in @ 40 degrees 4-6 months out of the year is a lot different from someone in the south where service water is seldom under 70 degrees.
Run the numbers and you'll be fine, don't believe what someone tells you.
kenny b
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Yes, don't believe anything you hear.
Especially, don't believe this.
snipped-for-privacy@adelphia.net wrote:

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Boy, created quite a stir of replies! I have some comments - for what they're worth....
- I've seen some posts about payout. Who cares about payout? If you can afford one, get one. In my opinion, it uses gas only when you turn on the hot water it will be hot as long as you wish. In a 3 1/2 bath house, when you have your kids and grandkids visiting, you will ALWAYS have hot water. If you deplete a 50 gal tank heater, it's gone and you will have to wait until the entire tank heats up, however long that takes - been there, done that, not pleasant.
- I've also seen some posts about price. Find a reputable dealer and/or plumber and you can get one for about half of the prices I've seen posted - installed! Just do an Ebay search for N-069M. Although you do need to have a plumber install the unit for warranty purposes, it really does not take rocket science to correctly size or install the unit. Just make sure you have the properly sized gas line supply as well.
I am very pleased with mine for over 6 months. I'll see how long it will last, but so far, I will install another one in the next house I build.
Again, just my 2 cents, no flames please. ...Bob

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Theres no harm in getting a 75 or even 100 gallon high BTU tank. regular tanks are about 40,000 BTU my high output is 75,000 BTU 50 gallons. thats a lot of water. by the time i am done getting a shower, dressed and go downstairs with the laundry the tanks burners are shutting off, and my shower has the flow restrictor removed:)
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