synthetic motor oil

[badgolferman]

I have owned Toyotas for the past 30 years and been very happy with them. I buy my cars used, typically 4-5 years old and keep them for

4-5 years or when they get near 200,000 miles. In each case I change my own oil because it's cheaper, I can use the oil and filter I want, and I don't trust the garages.

Last spring I bought a used 2013 Lexus RX350 with 16,000 miles. The Lexus dealer had put synthetic Mobil 1 oil in it upon delivery and also at the first free oil change 10,000 miles later. This past weekend I was due for another oil change at 35,000 miles and did it myself this time. I decided to go with Pennzoil Platinum Pure Plus 0W-20 after researching synthetic oils. The Toyota oil filter came from Lexus and the oil from Walmart. Total cost was under $47 for the filter and seven quarts of oil.

Maybe it's my imagination or the effect of new oil, but I must say the engine sounds quieter and my average gas mileage has climbed by a mile a gallon.

Other than extended oil change intervals has anyone noticed a difference when switching from conventional to synthetic motor oils? Have you noticed a difference between different brands of oils?

[gfretwell]

I think some people obsess about oil a lot more than is necessary. Change it every once in a while and use any API rated oil, you will be fine.

99.99% of cars are junked for thinks other than oil related failure and most people are not really that diligent about oil, particularly the 2d and 3d owner of the car.

If you really want to see people who obsess about oil, go to one of the boating BBs. They act like Yamaha and OMC have their own refinery somewhere pumping out this $8-10 a quart magical formula oil.

[>>>Ashton Crusher]

The benefit of synth oil as far as gas mileage is tiny. You aren't getting an extra mpg due to the oil. There is also a tiny benefit to the lower viscosity oil but again, it's not 1 mpg. The syn v dino might be worth half a percent. The lower viscosity maybe 2%.

The only reason to use synt today is if you plan to go to extended drain intervals. If you will be doing 6000 mi/6 mo max any regular brand dino oil of modern spec will be more then adequate. That was not true 20 years ago when synth had some real advantages over "regular dino oil".

I got sick of changing oil twice a year in my 5 cars so I switched to synt and went to 1 and sometimes 2 year old changes.

There was a guy who did a lot of oil testing on his Camaro comparing syth to regular. There was some other guy too who did similar. Between the two I can recall reading they found regular oil starting to poop out at about 8000 miles. Synth generally went to between 10K (for the worst) and 14K or more. One thing he said that was interesting was that he pulled the sample for synth at something like 10K and it was marginal. The car was down a quart so he only added a quart instead of changing it. Drove it for another thousand or two miles and sent in another oil sample. The new sample was back in the range of what he usually saw for 3K mile tests. So either one new quart really perked up the old 4 quarts of the "bad" test was a fluke and it really wasn't as bad as the test suggested.

In our fleet of many hundreds of vehicles the shop found the sweet spot for oil changes of light cars and trucks to be 6 months or 7500 miles using bulk dino oil. So on my cars still under a warranty I stick to the manufactures "normal service schedule" of 6 months/6000 miles with whatever oil they care to use for the sale price. Watching for specials at the dealer my average oil change costs at most $25 and I usually get a free wash.

[Ed Pawlowski]

Many years ago when synthetics were relatively new, my brother and I did some experiments with high rpm small displacement engines. Systhetic is is superior to regular oil.

That said, regular oil is still good for most cars and will work for

200,000 miles on the engine. I just use regular oil. If I had a Corvette or Lamborghini . . .

[Frank]

Not sure if you got a warranty but I would probably stick to manufacturers recommendations maybe including letting the dealer do the work until it expires. If you do have a warranty problem you may have to prove you abided to the recommendations. I had a problem like this and was doing my own oil changes and of course they asked for receipts. I told them I did not save them but kept a repair diary and they did accept that.

I once filed a small claims court suit on Ford and the dealer for not honoring my warranty. When I met with their lawyer and showed him my files, they gladly settled out of court for more than expected.

I'd probably stick with the synthetic oil as apparently it does not have nearly the additive content of regular oil and breakdown components may be less corrosive.

[Tekkie®]

[e-mail] posted for all of us...

Marvel Mystery Oil?

[gfretwell]

STP, Motor Honey, Yamaha Ring Free and all the other overpriced but largely ineffective mouse milks.

Years ago they asked Smokey Yanuck (famous stock car mechanic) about the STP sticker on his NASCAR racers. He said "it don't seem to hurt anything".

[clare]

Anyone who believes all oils are the same is very delusional. And anyone who thinks changing the oil on a reasonable schedule is wastefull is just fooling themselves.

Oil is the lifeblood of the engine. It lubricates, cools, and cleans the moving surfaces of the engine, preventing, or at least greatly reducing both wear and corrosion. Anyone who has worked extensively on engines can tell you what a neglected engine looks like, and can tell the neglected from the well maintained with his eyes closed.

[clare]

Or if temperatures dropped to -40, or went up to 100+F, or if the engine is lugged -like towing trailer, or revved high, like in racing

- the synthetic has real advantages.

I've switched both of my vehicles to synthetic, doubling my change intervals - so the extra cost is minimal. I change the oil spring and fall on both vehicles, whether the miles call for it or not. If I manage to put more than 10-15,000km on the vehicle before the season change, I'd change the oil early. (but we don't put that many miles on, generally. If we travel across the continent next summer, the car might get 3 changes instead of 2.

[clare]

Generally speaking, synthetics are less succesptible to oxidation so they sludge less and are less likely to "burn off". That reduction in oxidation also means less acids and other corrosive byproducts form in the oil.This also means the oil viscosity remains more stable - with little or no thickening of the base stock due to deterioration. The viscosity index is inherent to the oil structure, so VI improvers are not used as much, if at all, meaning the oil viscosity does not drop from shear. The cold flow is much better, resulting in less cold-start wear, and since the viscosity is stable under heat, the oil film doesn't break down under high temperatures causing high temperature lubrication failure and metal scoring/seizure/micro-welding etc.

Also, a dealer or manufacturer cannot refuse warranty just because you don't have them do the service, or because you use someone else's products, as long as they meet the manufacturer's specifications. Running non synthetic in an engine where Ford, for instance, calls for synthetic can render your warranty void for lubrication related failures only. Using synthetic in place of regular oil can not foid your warranty.

[clare]

Marvel Mystery oil is a good "tool" for solving some of the problems neglect inflicts on an engine.. Stuck rings and restricted oil galleries, as well as noisy gummed up lifters - all often caused by insufficient oil changes or oil quality, can more often than not be helped by the use of MMO.

Not necessary on an adequately maintained engine running a quality oil.

[Frank]

My problem was a head gasket but they did want to see all service records.

I know a little about the oil chemistry but not all.

I intend to get a new car next month which specifies synthetic oil. Retired I don't put on high mileage and am more concerned about intervals called for. I hear newer cars put out warning lights that oil needs changing. One guy did it himself but light does not go off as you have to do some magic to stop it.

[gfretwell]

We are assuming you change the oil somewhat on schedule but I know people who change it every year or two and still do not have oil related problems. As for the oil, you would have to really look hard to find any oil that does not meet the manufacturer's requirements. It is all going to be API SN unless someone found a case in the back from the Disco days. At the end of the day, most cars are junked because the body rusts out, all the doodads fail or the plastic interior simply decays away. The engine is still running. I am a "beater driver" who runs my cars until the wheels fall off (100k+ miles) and I haven't gotten rid of a single one because the engine failed. It is always just a combination of a dozen other nagging little things that add up to more than the car is worth.

[Tony Hwang]

Most new cars specify 0-20 synthetic and 15K change interval. I always take it to dealer when reminder pops up on MID. Dealer costs little more but oil change service includes basic inspections and tire rotation. When trade-in time comes they give somewhat better deal knowing the car's service history. Always I notice my old car becomes CPO and they get sold pretty quick on dealer's used lot. And I don't want to mess with used filter and oil to discard them properly.

[trader_4]

I was at the BMW parts counter few weeks ago. Fellow came in to get their BMW branded oil, $9 a quart. Mobil one costs me about half that and works for me. There is a difference between synthetic and conventional. Synthetic allows for a longer change interval, BMW for example is at 10K now, they have been as high as 15K a few years ago. I change it at about

8K. Beyond the difference between synthetic and dino, I agree that obsessing over it is nuts. Like you say, all the cars I've ever had, not one met it's demise through anything that could be related to oil. Now if you put dino oil in it and run it for 50K miles, that could be a different story.

[Frank]

Mentioned elsewhere what I was doing. Getting older I've been having shop do oil changes. I used to do it for convenience of not being pinned down waiting for it rather than cost but when you add taking oil in for recycling it gets bothersome.

Dealers and shops can be annoying as while they can find undiscovered problems they have a tendency to look too hard for stuff that could be put off and recommend shorter service intervals.

[Tony Hwang]

My dealer is privately owned. After founder died his widow and daughter are principals. Most staff members are 10-20 year guys with this outfit. Very trust worthy place.

[gfretwell]

Since they burn our trash in a waste to energy incinerator, I am not sure just putting in the trash is horrible but my wife has a recycle tank at work.

[Ed Pawlowski]

The lights have to be reset. Procedure is usually found in the manual and is usually a couple of simple steps.

Some cars have sensors that tell you when the oil needs changing. Then detect contaminants in the oil.

[clare]

If your wheels fall off at 100,000 miles you are neglecting your vehicle bif time. I BUY vehicles with twice that mileage on them - up here in the rust belt of the great white north.My truck is 20 years old with 340,000km on it and it's not half worn out yet.

Any piece of junk today will go 100,000 miles (160,000km) with 4 or 5 oil changes. Getting the next hundred out of a neglected engine is the trick. Also, the recommended oil on many vehicles today is a full synthetic. My wife's car calls for a synthetic blend 5w20 at the minimum - full synthetic 0w20 preferred.

I've only gotten rid of two vehicles with under 240,000km on it in the last 30 years - and one was to replace it with a vehicle with

307,000km on it. The only one I scrapped had well over 375,000km on it

- just under 100,000km on a crappy rebuilt engine. I gave the other one to my future son-in-law when his Chrysler 300 was stolen and the insurance co dragged their heals paying him out. It was ready for the scrap yard due to a badly rusted body (1995 Mystique) but mechanically it was still excellent. The first owner had neglected the body - I bought it cheap 10 years old with over 100,000km on the clock and it only got about 5500km put on it per year for the 7 or 8 years we owned it.