"Smart" Meters made them sick

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# # Well as you seem so ignorant on the topic read here. # http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Poverty_in_the_United_States
LOL The only country where "poor" people are fat. Go figure/.
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wrote:

sil

They are fat because they eat McDonalds shit. There is no nourishment and malnourishment. Just a tiny increment between them.
I'm told Americans think McDonalds is a restaurant.
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harry wrote:

If you had a REAL McDonald's in the UK, you might think differently.
For those of you who haven't experienced a UK Big Mac, think of a sandwich made with fried lamb and garnished with cucumbers instead of tomatoes. Oh, and it has a sauce so secret that no one can remember where it came from or when.
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On Sat, 16 Feb 2013 00:26:52 -0800 (PST), harry

I won't live to be 10000 years old, dumbass. There will be replacements by then (there already are but you lefties don't care).

harry, we all know you're an idiot. You can turn off the beacon on your head now.
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Not if it takes more fossil fuel to excavate, refine, manufacture and distribute a solar panel than the energy the panel can produce during it's working life.
It is a toy for people who can get government subsidies.
Here's a real world example:
A 25 watt panel costs about $125 . That is the cost to produce the panel and get it into the hands of a homeowner -- i.e. the selling price, typically.
Use Dallas as a location. 10 cents per kwh and a yearly average of 5.5 hours of "full sun" per day.
OK $125 means 1,250,000 watt-hours of electricity
That means 1,250,000 / (5.5 x 25) = 9091 days of power generation at full panel ability.
That means 9091/365 = 24.9 years to break even on cost of generated power, assuming zero maintenance and zero damage from rain and hail.
An unsustainable scenario.......
And if you figure in the cost of external infrastructure that's needed --- batteries, wiring, power converter, installation costs, maintenance on the infrastructure...
..... the business decision is a no-brainer....
Solar is a TOY, unless there is no other possible way.......Even a gasoline generator is more cost-effective...
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Clearly you have never been to Germany. Solar panels are cost effective because they need no fuel to run them. Their projected life is around 25 years. And they produce no pollution once manufactured. You have to buy gasoline to run your generator. You have to maintain it and it has a lifetime of a few thousand hours at best. And the cost of fossil fuels will rise. And fossil fuels are too valuable to burn.
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And you have to buy a new Solar DC-AC convertor, when the old one fails after a few years. Want to estimate the cost, when your original supplier is out of bizness? My guessimate comes out at 4 to 8000 dollars/euros. Not to mention, what replacing one or two failing panels costs. 25 years without maintenance costs is quite impossible.... You need panels with the same properties.........
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A few years?
My first hit on MTBF for DC-AC converter says 1 million hours. 365*24 = 8760. Looks like 114 years.
Seems a little high, but a few years sounds nuts.
Those Chinese must be pretty clever if they can sell something like that.
--
Dan Espen

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wrote:

I agree that the MBTF is out beyond a few years but we don't know how well they hold up to lightning. That may not be important everywhere but we have an ass kicking thunder storm just about every day here in the summer. (Florida). Then there is that 150 MPH hurricane thing. I wonder how well a collector holds up to a coconut hitting it at 100mph or so? I know my pool collector didn't hold up too good and it is just a low tech plastic deal.
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On Feb 13, 7:24 pm, snipped-for-privacy@aol.com wrote:

s

Some of us are condemned to life in nasty undesireable places;-)
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On Thu, 14 Feb 2013 00:20:06 -0800 (PST), harry

How is the weather there? By the number of Limeys here, it must not be that good.
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On Feb 14, 3:28 pm, snipped-for-privacy@aol.com wrote:

Only the drunks.
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There are now 'microinverters' that only produce about 300 watts and are easy to replace. You do have about 24 of them per panel. With todays cost it only takes about 5 years for a payback when you factor in all the tax breaks in the US.
Again look here for a real user. http://www.kenclifton.com/wordpress/
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My neighbour is a real user, about 16 big panels. The panels are in series, and the convertor converts high-voltage DC to 240 V ac. I am an electronic engineer, and I know some high-voltage equipment to fail on occasion. Even if a salesman tries to convince me thats not the case. Besides, the whole installation came from China, in a multi-customer contract to a chinese firm, including installation and convertor. It is not a simple convertor, a lot of smart control buildin. Now where to find such an animal in about 5 years????? A failng panel is easier, you can take it out of the loop, and keep on using the rest. That just decreases efficiency.
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You did put your finger on why this may actually take off some day. When China gets the system price down to a buck a watt, they start to make sense. Unfortunately we just trade the old dependence on foreign oil we had for a dependence on foreign solar collectors right at the time when we have a fossil energy surplus here. Coincidence? Maybe but I smell rich people manipulating a market.
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On Wednesday, February 13, 2013 11:12:32 PM UTC-5, snipped-for-privacy@aol.com wrote:

Surplus. Uh-huh.
If there's such a surplus then why are prices going up-up-up?
We're supposed to be on the "cheaper" winter blend right now and prices are creeping back to $4 a gallon.
Frankly I'd rather pay the Chinese for solar panels than the greedy old white men manipulating the gas prices.
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On Thu, 14 Feb 2013 08:22:59 -0800 (PST), snipped-for-privacy@gmail.com wrote:

Natural gas prices at the wholesale levels are going down. If your supplier is raising the price that is another problem.

That is gasoline, electric plants don't use gasoline.

So you prefer greedy old chinese people and their US partners ... OK
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On Feb 14, 2:31 pm, snipped-for-privacy@aol.com wrote:
:

are creeping back to $4 a gallon.

white men manipulating the gas prices.

Not to mention all the govt borrowed and printed money that went down rat holes like Solyndra. How much nat gas could you buy with $500mil?
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wrote:

te:

we

ch

s are creeping back to $4 a gallon.

d white men manipulating the gas prices.

A fixed amount. There is no limit on sunshine.
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# # A fixed amount. There is no limit on sunshine. #
Only true if you ignore the limits on the output of the sun and the amount of surface area available to capture it,
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