Seattle Bag Tax

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Although I live just outside Seattle, the bag tax issue caught my attention.
For years, since plastic grocery bags became available, I've used them (after hauling groceries home in them) as garbage can liners. They work much better than paper grocery bags (if one must throw out something wet and sloppy) and most of them are biodegradable (where the plastic trash bags are not). As a result, I haven't bought plastic trash bags for years. And that's not just me, but quite a few people I know do the same.
So, I got thinking: If I had to pay a bag tax, and was eventually persuaded to bring my own reusable grocery bags, I'd have to start buying trash bags again. So, I got to wondering: Who stands to gain if the public shifts from reusing grocery bags to buying trash can liners?
Where do companies like Glad stand on this issue?
--
Paul Hovnanian mailto: snipped-for-privacy@Hovnanian.com
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Paul Hovnanian P.E. wrote:

Interesting, we reuse trash bags and don't use them in the garage trash. If something will smell just toss it in a grocery bag and put it in the freezer. Would use reusable canvas bags and all but never really know how much we will get at the store
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degrade in a landfill. It is my understanding that the anerobic nature of most modern landfills creates conditions where organics simply do not biodegrade and the result is that the plastic bag, paper plates and hamburger will still be there 1000's of years from now.
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Doug Brown wrote:

The archaeologists are gonna have a lot of fun with us. Some have already started digging up 20th century landfills.
TDD
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I wonder how many otherwise servicable items have been landfilled. Automobiles, shavers, toasters, and maybe the occasional tommy gun from the prohibition era. Some states like Arizona are dry enough that the landfills are still pristine, if some what dessicated.
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Christopher A. Young
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Stormin Mormon wrote:

The Iraqis buried some jet fighters. *snicker*
TDD
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That, and tank, so I've heard. And we found no WMD, of course.
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On 8/25/2009 10:09 AM Stormin Mormon spake thus:

That's because there were none.
* I wouldn't have to put this note in if you didn't top-post.
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wrote:

That's not true.

That's not true either.
There weren't anywhere nearly as many as we expected, but the amount is non-zero.
http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,120137,00.html http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2004/jan/11/iraq http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,120268,00.html http://www.usatoday.com/news/world/iraq/2004-07-01-poland-iraq-sarin_x.htm
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On 8/25/2009 11:28 AM Doug Miller spake thus:

Well, fair enough: some clarification is called for here. From one of the articles you posted links to (http://www.guardian.co.uk/world/2004/jan/11/iraq ):
However, the find of a small amount of mortar shells is unlikely to satisfy a growing chorus of criticism that the much-touted weapons of mass destruction either never existed or were destroyed years ago. The Danish team has found only 36 mortar rounds buried in desert about 45 miles from Al Amarah, a southern town. But it added that up to a 100 more could still be hidden at the location. The rounds were in plastic bags and some were leaking. It seems they had been buried for at least 10 years.
So the salient point here is that those munitions were clearly left over from the Iran-Iraq war. (Pointed question: please tell us who, exactly, supplied Saddam Hussein with his chemical weapons for that war?) And of course, there's no argument that Hussein did use WMDs indiscriminately against the Iranians during that war.
There were essentially zero weapons of mass destruction found that were kept for use against invading US (er, "coalition") troops.
Glad we cleared that up.
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wrote:

Far from being salient, that's totally irrelevant. The important point was that the cease-fire agreement that suspended hostilities in 1991 required Iraq to account for, and dispose of under UN supervision, *all* such munitions in its possession, without regard to when they were produced, what they were left over from, or any other condition -- and that didn't happen.

Germany, mostly.

Yes, I'd agree with that statement. That's not what was widely believed at the time, though: see http://www.davidstuff.com/political/wmdquotes.htm for an example of the prevailing sentiment among U.S. political leaders.

Me too.
In hindsight, it appears that nearly all of Iraq's vaunted WMD capacity was a massive bluff by Saddam, to make himself and Iraq appear more powerful and dangerous than they really were -- most likely, IMHO, primarily to discourage Iran and perhaps Syria from taking advantage of the weakened condition Iraq was left in after Desert Storm, and secondarily to impress his own citizens with the power of the Iraqi state in order to discourage *them* from taking similar advantage.
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snipped-for-privacy@milmac.com (Doug Miller) wrote in wrote:

I believe(and Israel does too) that much of the Iraqi WMD materials were relocated to Syria.
WMD was not all of the reasons for the Iraq invasion. "progressives" always ignore all the rest of them.
Most importantly,we are now reasonably sure Iraq has no WMD,OR WMD **programs**,and reasonably certain Iraq is no threat to the US,Europe,or other ME nations.
Prior to Pres.Bush,Iraq was a threat to the US,Europe,and other ME nations.
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Jim Yanik
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Haven't heard of any 'tax' on s.market bags. Some s.markets have decided to charge 5 cents each bag; others have not. That 5 cents is quite reasonable; 5 cents when buying say $20 of groceries, is insignificant (one quarter of one percent!)and the bags very convenient if one is just running in at short notice to pick some up on way home. Certainly a lot cheaper than driving home burning gasoline to pick up reusable bags 'shopping bags'. The newer s.market sold plastic bags are larger and more sturdy that the older type and we find them more suitable for containing burnable trash. Very convenient to contain used tissues, slightly damp paper towels etc. We then tie the top and throw them entirely into wood stove or burning barrel. As well we do have concerns about 'reusing' any plastic bag to contain any food item. Some of the reusable bags we are now encouraged to purchase and use do seem capable of being washed and/or aired on the clothes line. But wouldn't try to put them through the clothes dryer though! Being generally made of some sort of woven plastic it looks like they might melt!
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On 8/25/2009 7:21 PM Jim Yanik spake thus:

Ah, yes, Israel: that tail that wags the dog of U.S. Middle East foreign policy.
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David Nebenzahl wrote:

We NEED Israel to back us up!
As we speak, there are about 13,000 'lifers' in the IDF plus about 100,000 conscripts undergoing their obligatory three-year tour. So, tonight, there are about 125,000 soldiers under arms in the Israeli Defense Force.
That number can be increased to 640,000 ground troops, deployed in combat, on three fronts, in 72 hours with the first quarter-million coming on line by this time tomorrow.
The U.S. DoD estimates that the IDF can field 18 divisions of infantry and armor. If so, the combat strength of the IDF is 50% larger than the authorized ground strength of the United States (10 Army and 2 Marine divisions).
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David Nebenzahl wrote:

Sadaam Hussein was the WMD.
He's now buried.
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Stormin Mormon wrote:

That's because the things were shipped out one end of Iraq as American troops came in the other end. Ya know, Insane Hussein sure bragged a lot about them not to have any. Of course the WMD's that were found are denied by Liberals. You could set a leaking cannister of poison gas in the lap of a Democrat and the damn fool would scream LIAR at you if you told him it was from Iraq as he fell over dead.
TDD
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wrote:

Thinking that in future time humans will be mining existing garbage dumps and 'recovering' the minerals? Right now enough wood goes to our local dump to heat not only city hall but many homes at same time. We are very much a throw-away society!
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wrote:

Thinking that in future time humans will be mining existing garbage dumps and 'recovering' the minerals? Right now enough wood goes to our local dump to heat not only city hall but many homes at same time. We are very much a throw-away society!
That is changing....Here in Maine we have 2 large trash incinerators that burn trash to make power. They are large enough that we import trash....The stacks have scrubbers and little or no pollution escapes..Several Biomass (wood chips) Boilers that produce power have started up as well with scrubber stacks....A local White Pine lumber mill (Robbins Lumber) has a boiler that burns all the waste (bark , sawdust , ect. ) and produces it's own power and manages to sell some as well...
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On 8/25/2009 8:45 AM benick spake thus:

Regarding that last point: Are you sure about this? Who's telling you that the incinerator produces little or no pollution? Can they be trusted?
Reclaiming resources is definitely a good thing; burning otherwise reclaimable stuff to make power is an iffy proposition at best.
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