Rethinking "Made in China"

Page 4 of 16  


What nonsense. I've had plenty of Euro made items that were junk, including German made. Italy makes enough crap to drag the whole continent's curve below avg! ;)
nb
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notbob wrote:

What nonsense? ... you can't be that dense, eh? Shit happens in every country, culture, civilization - past, present, and future.

Then there's my handmade, Omer pin nailer, one of the best engineered nail guns that money can buy, made in Italy.
Once again, there is NOTHING like it, and it is "European engineered".
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"Swingman" wrote:

Germans build most of the cars. Italians sew some great shoes and great hand built cars, tailored suits and what great food. I wouldn't want a car built by the French. The Dutch provide some great chocolate manufacturing machinery. Then there are the Swiss. If you have to ask, you can't afford. So it depends. ============================== Having represented several European instrument manufacturers over the years, it is obvious they have a whole different way of looking at things.
Europeans expect to perform routine maintenance on a regular basis, while for the most part US users have adopted the Andrew Carnegie approach of install the equipment, run it till it drops, remove to the junk yard, and install new equipment.
Most European equipment will not survive without regular maintenance, USA goods OTOH, usually will for an extended period of time.
BTDT, no T-shirt needed.
Lew
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Well, duh! That was pretty much my point.
nb
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On 12/16/2009 4:20 PM, Swingman wrote:

They said that about Japan in 1960. That nation then went on to hand Europe and the US their butts in the manufacturing of optics, electronics, and so forth.
Quality is not just a data point. It is a curve with the y-axis being price and the x-axis being quality. The curve rises asymptotically as you move to the right. The question is not "is it high quality?" The more usual question is, "Is it high enough quality for the desired task at hand AND is it worth the asking price?" Sometimes the quality you need justifies asymptotic costs - say when life support is involved. At other times a fairly low level of quality is all you need or are willing to pay for - say a tool you will only use once to solve a specific problem.
There are many examples of very successful companies and industries that learned how to manufacture "good enough" technology for some purpose. Microsoft is a great example of this. There were far better technologies around when Microsoft first entered the desktop OS business. But Microsoft figured out how to commoditize it at a price people could live with. Was it "high quality"? No, but it was "good enough" quality for the overwhelming majority of people and a multi-billion dollar industry (and company) was born.
That said, my experience for most tools is that saving money is a false economy. Good tools tend to last for the lifetime of the owner - or at least a very long time. Short term savings end up biting you in the hindquarters later on when you have to buy a replacement tool.
Incidentally, I'd argue that the Japanese are very much on par with the Europeans for many classes of tools these days. A Mitutoyo digital caliper is every bit the equal of a Brown & Sharpe for considerably less money, for example.
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"Swingman" wrote:

How many did you own?
Reliability was NOT my experience with a diesel Rabbit.
Lew
Lew
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2, too many.

Same with the Jetta and the Passat, BIL was not happy with his Passat either, trans problems.
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Lew Hodgett wrote:

Two of the most reliable and economical cars I have ever owned, one late 50's model in Europe, and the other a 1960, both original design, and probably still running today.

No wonder ... it was designed to give the American consumer the price point designed trash he prefers.
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They had great seat, though! ;)
nb
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I wrote:

"notbob" wrote:

True.
Same with the Opel and the "Bug".
Lew
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I can't say the same thing about the bug and Opel, but I know my Rabbit had the greatest seats in the history of automobiles. I used to work, on my feet, for 10-12 hrs on the production floor and at the end of the day when I came out to my old Rab, I'd jes sit there in it and luxuriate for a couple mins in its perfect spinal alignment. It was like a personal chiropractor. I once considered doing my house in Rabbit front seats... dinette set, circular lounge, etc. LOL
nb
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I got badly rear ended in my bug (64) and the seat did exactly what Ralph Nader said it would do - broke loose from the tracks.
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On Thu, 17 Dec 2009 08:35:46 -0800, "Lew Hodgett"

extremely comfortable - Peugeot and Citreon too. The seats on my 49 bug?? Not terribly comfortable, but removing two wingnuts gave you pretty good camping chairs.
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I will have to disagree with you there. Kim and I bought a new 99 Jetta, it left her stranded on the freeway 3 times under warranty the first 18 months, and a dead battery replaced under warranty. That was the Mexico built vehicle. Towed into the dealership and "no problem found " on the 3 rd time we immediately traded for a German built 2000 Passat. We almost kept it 4 years. While we had it, it left Kim stranded 2 times, once was a faulty starter relay, the second time another dead battery replaced by me. Then there were numerous emissions problems, the need to replace both outer tie rod ends at 30K, and the heater core at 43K. The transmission was showing signs of failure. Traded for the 04 Accord at 47K. Both vehicles were serviced more often than recommended by the dealer. The 99 Jetta and 2000 Passat were serviced/oil changed at 3K VW recommended every 10K. After trading the Passat we got a factory letter rewording service intervals for the turbo, every 3K and with synthetic oil. I saw that coming.
I bought the VW's on their past reputation.
Maybe my first VW's were a fluke but I'll probably never buy another.

Totally agree with that and I attribute the failure to poor teachers that don't give a shit and that finally led to teachers that could not find a job any where else. Long ago when teachers could step in as a parent and administer discipline he or she could actually teach. We have lost teachers that actually taught for baby sitters.
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Leon wrote:

The "Volkswagen", the original design, is what I was talking about. Not the price point engineered models they started making to woo and placate the American consumer with the junk they prefer.
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Exactly!
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Smitty Two wrote:

Yeah, but how many cars come with a tool kit? Admittedly, the tool kit wasn't much. It consisted of a cylinder with two socket ends (which fit virtually every nut on the car), two screwdrivers, a pair of pliers, and a metal rod used to turn the socket cylinder.
There's a video floating aroung (Guiness Book of Records folks) showing a crew removing a VW engine, moving the engine four feet from the rear bumper, reinstalling the engine, then driving the bug away. In one minute, four seconds.
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HeyBub wrote:

My motor pool guys would repair any VW engine, on the mess hall table, for no charge and in about twenty minutes. In the service in Germany in the 60's and 70's there was the proverbial "$50 Volkswagen", which you bought for $50 from the guy going back home, and sold it for $50 to the next guy when you left. Some of those things had titles as long as your arm and had changed hands literally dozens of times.
My "$50 Volkswagen" a 1960, with tire chains on it, would take on any blizzard with style; being air cooled, it never failed to start in subzero weather, and it would run on the Autobahn all day at 80mph.
When winter hit in Southern Bavaria, and since I lived 20 miles from base on mountain roads, I left the 2002TI at home and drove the Bug by choice for the duration.
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gas heaters that were generally functional about one year at a time.
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wrote:

Canada", the LADA, came with a FULL tool kit. In general you needed it, and needed to know how to use it, if you hoped to drive one.
A poor russian copy of a poor Italian design.

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