Results when you examine your garage door for broken things!

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I was looking at my (other) garage door (based on a broken spring, which is the topic of another thread) when I noticed this missing pin!

And, then I noticed this snapped hinge:

And, this cracked bottom fixture:

Moral of the story: Visually inspect your garage door!
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On Sat, 10 Nov 2012 21:47:25 +0000, Danny D. wrote:

Looks like it's going to be hard to find replacement Taylor black plastic hinges ... so I'm going to ask if you guys ever replaced a hinge before?
I 'think' the part number is: H1401 for the bottom hinge H1402 for the middle hinge H1403 for the top hinge
But, out of all the DIYs I've found for garage door springs, I haven't found a garage-door hinge DIY.
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I've replaced hinges before w/o any instructions...way easier (& safer) than spring replacement. I merely skimmed their writeup but it seemed good.
http://www.garagehowto.com/garage-door-hinge-2.html
Checkout the rest of their site for info on addtional subject.
How about these hinges?
http://www.diydoorstore.com/Taylor-1-Nylon-Garage-Door-Hinge_p_47.html
cheers Bob
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On Sat, 10 Nov 2012 17:40:50 -0800, DD_BobK wrote:

Hi Bob, That DIY helps a lot as I'm not sure how to select replacement hinges: http://www.garagehowto.com/garage-door-hinge.html
I certainly wasn't aware of the obscure hinge numbering system.
My (Taylor) door is 7 feet tall, so there are four 21" hinged panels. So I have only #1, #2, and #3 (plastic) hinges (I don't have #4 hinges).
It looks like I need one #2 and two #3 hinges and that I need to fix the split door at the bottom "lift bracket".
This is the first broken hinge, a #2 hinge apparently (with roller):

The other two are both a #3 hinge apparently (with roller):

I hate to buy more plastic hinges (preferring steel), but I am not sure if the rest of the hinge shape matters since there are four different types of hinges on any given garage door. I'll read your two references in detail to determine an action plan. thanks
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On Sat, 10 Nov 2012 17:40:50 -0800, DD_BobK wrote:

I see 'most' of my Taylor plastic hinges are already replaced with steel ... so the only ones left are the plastic ... and all of those are broken!
LEFT SIDE HINGES:
RIGHT SIDE HINGES:

What I don't get is WHY they make the hinges any different.
Q: What's different about the job of the #1, #2, and #3 hinge anyway?
Why not make the three types of hinges all the same?
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DD-
The different hinge types (#'s) are needed to allow the garage door to close & seal against the vertical framing members via wedging action. I'm no garage door expert but I believe that each hinge # provides industry standard dimensions of offsets.
check out
http://ddmgaragedoors.com /
The 4th paragraph explains it.
Excerpted here...
Garage door sections are stacked vertically. They are held together with hinges along the length of the sections. The hinges at each end not only hold the sections together, but they serve an additional purpose of holding the rollers in place. Rollers are needed to allow the door to be opened and closed in tracks. These tracks are attached with track brackets to the sides of the opening called the jamb. These brackets are also called jamb brackets.
The end hinges also serve a third purpose - to allow the door to close into a wedge. The end hinges follow a progression - 1,2,3,4,5,6, etc., with each higher number spacing the roller further away from the hinge. The vertical track assists in this wedge action by using graduated track brackets, with lower-numbered jamb brackets holding the bottom of the track closer to the jamb while the higher-numbered brackets keep the top of the vertical track further away from the jamb. The net result is a garage door that seals tightly against the opening. This hardware was originally patented by Overhead Door Corporation, and for several decades a lot of ingenuity went into getting garage doors to seal against the openings.
cheers Bob
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On Sat, 10 Nov 2012 22:22:45 -0800, DD_BobK wrote:

Thanks for pointing that explanation out. I read it just now, three times, and, well, I'm still a bit confused how the hinges are different.
A graphic would have helped explain how the graduated hinges work.
Let me try to explain, in simple steps, what I understand; and see if it makes sense to others (who can correct misconceptions).
1. The garage door must seal against the elements. 2. Somehow, the #1, #2, #3 progression of hinges help it seal. 3. Somehow, they do that by 'wedging' the door tighter as it closes. 4. So, they're graduated in size, in some dimension (as yet unknown). ---- So far, so good.
But, here's the conceptual problem: From reading the explanation, it seems the #1, #2, and #3 hinges hold the door closer and closer to the door opening (i.e., to the jamb) as the door travels downward.
But ... here's the conceptual dilemma: 5. The roller in the hinge is free to move horizontally by a lot!
So, even if the hinge tried to hold the roller closer in the (horizontal direction) to the track, the roller is free to move horizontally by about an inch anyway.
So, I don't get 'HOW" the hinge accomplishes 'wedging' the door closer and closer to the jamb, when the roller itself is allowed to move within the hinge by sliding in and out of the hinge (horizontally) by a lot.
I will google for an additional explanation, as two explanations often clarify inconsistencies.
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On Sun, 11 Nov 2012 14:22:06 +0000, Danny D. wrote:

Googling, I haven't yet found a graphic that explains garage door hinge operation - but I just realized that the wedge 'plane' is where the confusion lies.
If we assume we're standing in the center of a darkened garage with the door closed, and we saw daylight through this triangular 'wedge' effect from the graduated hinges, what plane would this triangle be in?
Assuming x is horizontal, the graduated hinges can't be holding the door closer to the track because the roller is free to move in the x direction.
The graduated hinges would have no effect in the y direction, because that's the direction of garage door travel controlled by the torsion spring.
So, it must be in the z direction that the graduated hinges must be taking effect. That is, we need to move the vantage point from the center of the darkened garage, to the SIDE of the door, between the jamb opening and the door itself (I think!).
I'm googling for an image, taken from a dark garage, with the door down, where we could 'see' this wedge-shaped slice of daylight.
Reading more, and searching for pictures of that wedge-shaped plane, I now belatedly realize there is a reason people use the word "jamb" versus "track" in the explanations of how hinges work.
We need a side view!
Here's the best picture I can find so far of a side view:
http://static.ddmcdn.com/gif/repair-a-garage-door-1.jpg
I'll keep googling for a side view showing what I now 'think' the graduated hinges affect!
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On Sat, 10 Nov 2012 22:22:45 -0800, DD_BobK wrote:

I think my confusion is I was looking at the hinge from the wrong plane.
Looking at the reference you provided: http://www.diydoorstore.com/Taylor-1-Nylon-Garage-Door-Hinge_p_47.html
I apparently have a Taylor Encore or Taylorcore garage door. Googling for that, I can't (yet) find a picture of the three sized hinges, side by side.
Everyone shows a front view - but a SIDE view would show the 'height' of the hinge (or the distance from the center of the roller bar to the door itself.
I'm guessing that this height of the hinge (or the distance the roller bar is kept from the door itself) is the difference between the #1, #2, and #3 hinges.
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On Sun, 11 Nov 2012 16:00:46 +0000, Danny D. wrote:

Here's a pic I made showing garage door hinge SIDE views!

I created that composite image from Bob's reference: http://www.diydoorstore.com/Taylor-4-Nylon-Garage-Door-Roller-Hinge-_p_51.html
Specifically, I slapped these four pictures together: 1. Taylor #1 Nylon Garage Door Hinge Part Number TD-#1NH
http://www.diydoorstore.com/assets/images/taylorgaragedoorparts/dsc_1210.jpg
2. Taylor #2 Nylon Garage Door Roller Hinge Part Number TD-#2NRH
http://www.diydoorstore.com/assets/images/taylorgaragedoorparts/dsc_1214.jpg
3. Taylor #3 Nylon Garage Door Roller Hinge Part Number TD-#3NRH
http://www.diydoorstore.com/assets/images/taylorgaragedoorparts/dsc_1214.jpg
4. Taylor #4 Nylon Garage Door Roller Hinge Part Number TD-#4NRH
http://www.diydoorstore.com/assets/images/taylorgaragedoorparts/dsc_1215.jpg
Notice that they used the exact SAME PHOTO for #2 and #3 Taylor hinges so I'm going to have to throw out the bad datapoint.
Here's an edit, throwing out the bad datapoint above, showing what I 'think' the graduated difference might be:

From that rough analysis, it seems the HEIGHT of the #1 roller is less than the height of subsequent rollers, with the #3 being 'taller' and the #4 being taller still???
If this is actually true, and, assuming a vertical door jamb, then it would seem that the triangular wedge (looking sideways) would be something like this crude diagram I just drew.

But, can anyone else confirm?
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On Sun, 11 Nov 2012 16:49:19 +0000 (UTC), "Danny D."

After reading all this I think you are still missing the key bit of info. The garage door is not "tilted" back as your drawing shows. The garage door, when closed, is perfectly vertical. What is not perfectly vertical is the "vertical" track on each side of the door. The track is what is tilted back.. near the top, the track is spaced about 2" from the wall it is mounted to. Toward the bottom it is only about 1.5" from the wall. This is the "wedge" that's formed that makes the door "jamb" itself into place when it's at the very bottom as it rolls down to a close. Each of the hinges (#1, #2, #3, etc) has slighting increased distance from it's "face" to the centerline of the roller axle. What happens is that when the door is "jammed" at the bottom, the "almost vertical" side tracks are backspaced exactly the same amount as the offset for each number hinge/roller and it fits tight. As soon as the door starts to roll up in the tracks, the fact that the "vertical track" isn't really straight up but is tilted back slightly means that the door moves backwards away from the wall and it's all magically happening simply by the use of the slightly tilted vertical tracks and the slightly differently offset hinge/roller holders. It's so simple once you see how it works and yet so clever a way to make it not rub as it moves and yet "jam" into position when fully closed.
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On Sun, 11 Nov 2012 23:47:40 -0700, Ashton Crusher wrote:

Hi Ashton, Thank you for clarifying this!
Your explanation below is the BEST ON THE NET! NONE of the DIYs adequately explained what you just did!
I just snapped this picture of both my broken garage doors, where we can SEE exactly what you're saying!


That's not intuitive.

I see that in my picture above. Nobody mentioned this before!

This I had only recently figured out, only as of yesterday Note: The wrong hinges are mounted on my door! All the steel hinges replacing the plastic are stamped #1!

This is the KEY! It's certainly not intuitive! It's clever - but NOBODY mentioned this interaction - until now!

I think you're the only one who really understood this! Even the DIY people didn't say it as cleverly. I'm going to mail this description to the president of DDM doors so that he can add that to his descriptions (he's a nice guy and I've spoken by phone to him multiple times so I know he will care).
Thanks again, for finally explaining how the garage door actually works. Most of us, including me, never understood what you said until you said it!
Today, after work, I'll replace hinges & glue the broken bottom on the larger door; and I'm still waiting for the torsion spring and tools to arrive for the smaller door.
Without the collective knowledge of this group, I wouldn't be able to do this repair properly - and learn all that I can about how to properly fix and maintain a garage door! Kudos to all.
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DD-
The other thing that makes this difficult..... website programmers / maint people often use "any suitable" photo thus one cannot depend on their accuracy.
I think somethng that is missing from the garage door writeups..
the #0 hinge is the bottom bracket, the hinge # increases by 1 at each hinge location. You can determine what hinge number you need by its position.
Thus taller garage doors use "more" hinge numbers.
cheers Bob
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On Sun, 11 Nov 2012 08:50:19 -0800, DD_BobK wrote:

Thanks Bob for helping me figure this out:

I was standing in the middle of the garage looking in the wrong plane!
The difference between graduated hinges is shown whey you lay them on the floor, with the holes pointing toward you.
Once I knew that, I could change my search terms, e.g., to: "garage door hinge measure to the middle of the circle"
Using those new search terms, I found this: http://www.diygaragerepair.com/Garage-Door-Hinges-s/4.htm
And, this (How do I meausure garage door hinges, DIY): http://ddmgaragedoors.com/parts/hinges.html
Here is a quote showing how to measure the hinge height:
Place your hinge on a level ground, and measure the distance from the ground to the center of the top hole. That measurement can be referenced using the chart below.
Garaage Door Hinge# = Distance      Hinge #1 = 5/8" to 3/4" Hinge #2 = 7/8" to 1" Hinge #3 = 1-1/8" to 1-1/4" Hinge #4 = 1-3/8" to 1-1/2" Hinge #5 = 1-5/8" to 1-3/4"      Hinge #6 = 1-7/8" to 2" Hinge #7 = 2-1/8" to 2-1/4"      Hinge #8 = 2-3/8" to 2-1/2"      Hinge #9 = 2-5/8" to 2-3/4"      Hinge #10 = 2-7/8" to 3"      Hinge #11 = 3-1/8" to 3-1/4" Hinge #12 = 3-3/8" to 3-1/2"
So, I updated my graphic with this helpful information:

Thanks for helping me understand!
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In article
DD, give it up already. Danny is Donna, the usenet attention troll whose sole purpose is to see how long she can keep a thread going, with her fake cheeriness, endless series of ever more infinitesimal detail, and an OCD need to document minor repairs to the dissertation tome level. She won't shut up until the last fish escapes her insipid net, or the damn garage door decapitates her.
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On Sun, 11 Nov 2012 09:42:54 -0800, Smitty Two wrote:

I don't see why it matters at all who is behind the nym and ocd is good for nntp but I did view the pictures so the questions are valid even though I can see the error in the explanation of the hinge operation.
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hear, hear.
I spent a great deal of time reading this as a reference for future garage repair. Found two useful websites, one diy, the other a supplier.
Actually got more from this thread than from the spam and OT religious/ political/anti-US tirade threads and even pertains to the group!
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On Sun, 11 Nov 2012 13:52:23 -0800, Robert Macy wrote:

I'm not sure what the problem is with detail; and, if I'm OCD, so be it. If I'm responsive, again, that's a good thing. If I snap a lot of pictures with detail, that too is a good thing. I've been on the net for decades - and I know how to post properly. I'm an engineer (electrical) so I know all about detail (circuit design).
I won't knock anyone for their opinion - but I wish the opinion had a modicum of merit. At least I'm always on topic & I'm not covering stuff that has been covered umpteen times prior.
Anyway, we digress with this banter. Back on topic:
Here's the update.
Knowing what I know now about the hinges, I was able to see that whoever replaced the black plastic hinges prior did it all wrong (they had used all the same hinge!).
So, I picked up two #2 and two #3 14-gauge steel hinges at Home Depot for about $5 each.
Here's a picture of what I bought from Home Depot:

1. #3 Garage Door Hinge #526617 (Everbilt brand) 2. #2 Garage Door Hinge #522739 (Everbilt brand) 3. #14x1" sheet metal screws, hex head slotted, #26211 (Crown Bolt)
These universal hinges came with four 1.75-inch carriage bolts, but my 2" thick steel door uses only sheet-metal screws. So I also picked up four #14 one-inch sheet metal screws for each hinge.
Unfortunately, Home Depot didn't have #15 or #16 sheet metal screws, so, I hope #14 is big enough to support the stress.
It's dark now - so when I get back from work tomorrow to finish the job, I'll snap photos so that you can see the results.
NOTE: [To anyone 'not' interested in garage door hinges (which is wholly understandable) - please just gracefully move on to the next thread, as there is plenty to complain about there if you're so inclined.]
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On Sat, 10 Nov 2012 17:40:50 -0800, DD_BobK wrote:

Drat!
The bad news is that some of the existing replacement hinges have the hinge number (i.e., #1, #2, #3) on the top of the bracket - while others have the number stamped on the bottom.
Does it matter which way I install the new hinges? I would think it does - because the hinge has two holes offset at an angle.
Sigh.
That DIY above doesn't say. Neither do the instructions that came with the hinge!
Here is a picture of the replacement hinges being greased before I put them on the door:

I was actually shocked that there were unused drill holes in EVERY SINGLE spot I could put a replacement hinge! I didn't need to drill anything even though the replacement hinges are three times the size of the original plastic Taylor Encoredoor hinges:

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On Wed, 14 Nov 2012 04:40:53 +0000, Danny D. wrote:

It is shocking that the instructions don't say, and, that my door had both the wrong steel replacement hinges installed, and one of the hinges was on upside down!
So, I was confused about the direction to mount the #2 and #3 hinges.
This garage door hinge DIY doesn't say anything about the direction to install the asymmetric hinges: http://www.garagehowto.com/garage-door-hinge-2.html
Neither does this garage door hinge DIY: http://www.ehow.com/how_6587952_install-garage-door-hinges.html
Yet, this garaqe door hinge DIY is explicit on the direction: http://ddmgaragedoors.com/diy-instructions/middle-roller-hinge-replacement.php
It says: "The end with a slot in the hinge must be on top, while the end with just a hole must be on the bottom."
So I had to re-mount one of the hinges.

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