OT - PBS Special - "Super Skyscrapers"

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Lots of very interesting stuff about the building of the new One World Trade Center building. With the tower, the building comes to 1776 feet tall. It's a remarkable story about how huge projects come together and all the issues they had to face building super-tall skyscrapers.
The elevators rise at 1800 fpm, making a trip to the top possible in under a minute. The shape of the building was designed to "spoil" wind vortices. One thing that surprised me was the copious use of bolts instead of rivets.
Absolutely remarkable video showing how they assembled the spire. If you didn't get to see it tonight, look for it in reruns. Anyone interested in how things are built will enjoy it.
--
Bobby G.



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what a crock...the only reason it gets that height is that the 408 foot "spire" is included even though it is not an architectural element. it's a pure case of politics
After the changes in the design of One World Trade Center's spire were revealed in May 2012, questions were raised as to whether the 408-foot (124m) structure would still qualify as a spire and thus be included in the building's official architectural height.[83][84] As the building's spire is not enclosed in a radome as originally planned, it may instead be classified as a simple antenna which, according to the CTBUH, is not included in a building's official height.[84] Without the inclusion of the antenna mast, One World Trade Center's official height would be its roof height of 1,368 feet (417m), making it the third-tallest building in the United States, behind the Willis Tower and Trump International Hotel & Tower, both located in Chicago.[85][86] Additionally, while the building is the tallest in New York City now either way, without the antenna it would be surpassed in 2015 by the under-construction 432 Park Avenue, which is expected to rise to a height of 1,398 feet (426m).[87][88] One World Trade Center's developers have disputed the claim that the spire should be reclassified as an antenna following the redesign,[89] with Port Authority spokesman Steve Coleman reiterating that "One World Trade Center will be the tallest building in the Western Hemisphere."[83] The CTBUH announced in 2012 that it would wait to make its final decision as to whether or not the redesigned spire would count towards the building's official height.[83] On November 12, 2013 the CTBUH announced that the spire on One World Trade Center will count as part of the buildings official height which gives the building a final height of 1,776ft and makes it the tallest building in the Western Hemisphere.[27]
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As far as 432 Park Ave. is concerned, I would NEVER want to live in a building where the windows cannot be opened. I don't care how good the HVAC system is in there!
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building where the > windows cannot be opened. I don't care how good the HVAC system is in there!
I hear ya. Sealed windows definitely impact any potential exit strategies.
http://www.google.com/images?qC2+Park+Ave
IIRC, the aerodynamics of such tall buildings pretty much prohibit open windows. I'll bet there are lots of other reasons, too.
Somehow, looking at the pictures, it seems I.M. Pei was right. Someday many of our tallest buildings will be converted into our longest ones. It just seems so intrinsically vertically unstable. But I guess a lot of ancient columns have survived so there's hope.
The real question is what would you do with an open window at 1,200 feet? I guess you could stow a paraglider or a repelling kit. Plenty of people "base jump" off tall structures and survive. Getting the window open or broken out in these new hi-rises, at least from what I saw last night, won't be an easy task. I'd at least keep a very long-handled sledge hammer around. (-:
http://www.elegran.com/news/2013/07/432-park-avenue-will-now-have-two-penthouses
The penthouse goes for $95M - wow!
I worked in a very, very tall building once in NYC and I gotta say - they move a LOT. Some more than others depending on harmonics but on a good, windy day, you can feel the whole damn structure swaying. It's probably not where you want to be if a record earthquake hits NYC. I like being close to the front door which is close to the ground and being able to open a window and jump out without worrying *too* much about splattering when I hit. (-:
--
Bobby G.



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I used to wonder why the local FD was on the 3rd floor of the City County Bldg while the cops and mayor and other honchoes were up around 8 or 9. Turns out the way the building was situated even the city's tallest ladder would only go to the 3rd floor. Coincidence? I think not. So, when possible I always head down to the nearest fire station and try to get no higher than where the closest ladder truck reaches.
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wrote:

<stuff snipped>

Hmm. Does sound suspicious. The options for people above ladder rescue reach are not very good.
It's clear that folks living in that ultra-high rise have traded off easy escape for a terrific view. The one thing that the WTC collapse brought home very clearly is that if there's a major event like a plane impacting the side of the building, people above that floor are likely to be in a world of hurt. IIRC, the new WTC should survive the kind of impact that doomed the two WTC towers but I have my doubts. Still, a lot of lessons *were* learned from 9/11 and the replacement building is demonstrably safer in many ways.
--
Bobby G.



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the replacement building is clearly a future target by idiots:(
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news:643afa29-44e8-41c3-ad06-
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This one will be a LOT harder to knock down because it's so much stronger and the security is so much better. Who cares what those damn terrorists like or don't like or what they consider a "target" for their evil?
Did you see how they were parading about a military service dog they had captured, saying it had the rank of Colonel? Savages.
--
Bobby G.



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I have retired neighbor who used to be a paramedic for a local FD. He used to drive the "fly car", often being the first one on site when medical assistance was called for. Years ago he told that he never stays above the 5th floor of a hotel because that's the highest a FD ladder will reach. I should ask him if he stills follows that rule.
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<stuff snipped>

I've heard more than one firefighter say something like that.
It's funny that in NYC where my grandparents had to spend what for them was an enormous amount of money adding a fire escape to their three story house, there's very little real concern about how people can escape from these uber-tall buildings. Apartment buildings have external fire escapes, airplanes have those inflatable slides, big ships have lifeboats and yet in disasters like the WTC collapse, occupants end up jumping out of windows to certain death. What's wrong with this picture?
--
Bobby G.



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On 2/7/2014 10:59 AM, DerbyDad03 wrote:

I think that's wise, to stay closer to the ground. It's been years since I've been in a hotel or motel. I always bring my own smoke detector, and hang it on the inside of the door. I'm not much for night life, so I eat in the room. Have my clothes right in my suit case in case I need to exit rapidly. In case of fire, bring wet towels to breathe through, car keys, flash light. That kind of stuff.
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...snip...

...snip....
Just last week I heard an interesting statistic from a gentleman well versed in Real Estate investments (REITs).
He said that the owners of the Empire State Building (Empire State Realty Trust) are putting a lot of money into modernizing the interior of the building. He said that right now it's hard for them to command high rents because the building's amenities are so outdated.
The interesting statistic was that the building currently generates about 85% (eighty five!) of its total revenue from tourists visiting the observation decks. That's 2.7 million square feet of commercial space vs. the two observation decks on the 86th and 102nd floors. The O-decks win 85 - 15.
I'd like to see what the projected revenue numbers for the rental space will be once the modernization is complete.
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<stuff snipped>

Jeez. Who would have thunk it? Reminds me of how Egypt has fared after its "revolution." Tourism revenue plummeted and only then did they realize what the interruption cost them. You'd think if they hated the West that much, the best revenge would be to rip off all the Western tourists with $5 glasses of lemonade, possibly made with Aswan Dam snail infested water that's chock full of parasites like the schistosomiasis worm: <black humor alert>
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Schistosoma
http://www.dcp2.org/features/81

I wonder if the revenue will be affected by the new One WTC building? It's got a pretty remarkable view of NYC and the surrounding areas. It's also clearly got a historical sense to it that the ESB lacks in comparison. It would be worth visiting One WTC just to ride in those super-high speed elevator cars. At over 1000 feet per minute, going down's got to induce some serious weightless feelings.
--
Bobby G.



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In article

did he happen to mention if the building actually generates a profit?
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He didn't mention anything about actual profits, but this 2011 NY Times article does...
Stolen without permission from:
http://www.nytimes.com/2011/12/25/nyregion/empire-state-building-observation-decks-generate-startling-profits.html?pagewanted=all&_r=0
"The decks attract four million visitors a year and generated $60 million in profits in 2010, while the owners made little if any money on the office space..."
So, at least back in 2010 it looks like they profited from the O-Decks and about broke even on the rest of the building.
I'll need to check my tax returns but I'm pretty sure I didn't make $60 million in 2010.
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<stuff snipped>

You probably forgot to add in the Earned Income Credit. (-:
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On 2/7/2014 3:02 AM, Robert Green wrote:

I wouldn't want to be near an open window at 1,200 ft, Or 50 ft.

Some buildings have a real heavy weight near the top that is controlled to move in the same direction the building is (pushes the building in the other direction).
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feet?

One of my very first front page photos in the very defunct Washington Star was of a residential apartment tower that was coming apart in a very high wind. The building was not well-designed, aerodynamically - it was actually two L shaped buildings sited next to each other with a small gap between them like this |_ _| - the wind was entering the wide open space in the back and was funneled (and concentrated) by the design. The wind began tearing out the windows on both sides of the gap on the ninth floor on down.
First the window panels dislodged, then the curtains came flying out, then the blinds and after that, stuff from the inside of the affected apartments. I managed to get a picture of a huge window section and of the Venetian blinds suspended in mid-air. I only realized later one of those big panes of glass could have killed me (or anyone else on the ground) quite easily if it took a bad hop.
You could see during the Skyscraper program how windy it gets up at 1,500 feet. They had to redesign the spire (to remove the cladding) because wind tunnel tests showed it was likely to shear away in very high winds. They wanted to clad it to make sure the spire counted as part of the building, thus clinching the title of the tallest building in the Western Hemisphere. The "tall building" commission gave the title to them anyway.

they

Those devices probably *weren't* in the building I worked in. It was really unsettling. The only time I experience worse swaying was when my Mom drove us across the newly opened Verazzano Bridge in a severe winter blizzard in a relatively tiny Olds F-85. God bless her, she kept her composure as big tractor-trailers were just sliding from lane to lane without warning. It took over an hour to cross the bridge because traffic was moving so slowly.
It was only decades later that she confessed that she had never been more scared in her life. She was certain the car was going to get swept off the bridge. FWIW, that bridge really, really dances around in very high winds. Not quite as bad as the Tacoma Narrows bridge (the one made famous by the film of it shaking apart in high winds) but I developed a life long fear of bridges after that incident.
--
Bobby G.



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...snip...

...snip...
The Verazzano Narrows bridge was the first place I drove a car over 100 MPH.
I had about 6 months between high school and USCG boot camp. My best friend's older brothers owned a bagel shop in Queens and they hired me to deliver fresh bagels to stores in Queens, Brooklyn and Staten Island. It didn't take me too many early morning trips across the bridge to notice that the police in Brooklyn stayed in Brooklyn and the police on Staten Island stayed on the island.
2 miles of open highway, no cops, and rarely a lot of traffic at 5 AM...what's a teenager to do? 110 MPH in a Chevy station wagon loaded to the roof with a couple of hundred dozen bagels, that's what!
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Robert Green:
Not just about emergecy egress, but about fresh air. I would suffocate in there just thinking about it!
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