OT -- lack of planning on your part ....

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Last night, I got a call from church. Some folks having a presentation, and need the spot light. One of the fellows find out that his master key doesn't work the closet where the lights are.
Called to ask which key works, and is there a key in the building somewhere. No key in the building, and I've got a key that works.
So, I drove to the building, and was running a little late for my next appointment. I'm trying to decide when to say "that's bad planning on your part, and I'm not available to come in and rescue you."
How to decide? I hate to foster dependance "just get Chris, he'll do anything".
Christopher A. Young Learn more about Jesus www.lds.org .
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*** snipped-for-privacy@hotmail.com says...

In a place of work, there are set procedures and various people responsible for these things. So for that, yes "lack of planning".
But a church typically has volunteers and no steady employees who would know various procedures, etc. A constant stream of new people learning about these things.
Also not a heck of a lot of money to get all the locks properly keyed, etc.
So in that case it is not easy to communicate to people what all they need to do before hand when they want to use the facilities, etc. And as soon as you teach them, they someone new comes along and you need to start all over!
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Do I know you? That's perfect description.
Scott Adams could write last night into a Dilbert comic strip, and it would be fitting.
Christopher A. Young Learn more about Jesus www.lds.org .
In a place of work, there are set procedures and various people responsible for these things. So for that, yes "lack of planning".
But a church typically has volunteers and no steady employees who would know various procedures, etc. A constant stream of new people learning about these things.
Also not a heck of a lot of money to get all the locks properly keyed, etc.
So in that case it is not easy to communicate to people what all they need to do before hand when they want to use the facilities, etc. And as soon as you teach them, they someone new comes along and you need to start all over!
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On 12/06/2012 06:11 AM, Stormin Mormon wrote:

Some people would really appreciated being needed in such a way; you should consider yourself fortunate.
Jon
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Ideally, yes. However, that day I'd been to the building twice already, and was pressed for time for my next appointment.
Another day of the week might have been different.
Christopher A. Young Learn more about Jesus www.lds.org .

Some people would really appreciated being needed in such a way; you should consider yourself fortunate.
Jon
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On 12/6/2012 8:11 AM, Stormin Mormon wrote:

So, if you've managed to leave them so the only key that does work is on your person, what _should_ they do?
Sounds like the bad planning is on your end to me...
(Church trustee; there's a full set to everything in cabinet in closet off the office...)
--
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I know of two other people in my congregation who have a key that would open that closet. You know, maybe I should figure out what closets are on odd keys, and figure out who's got the keys. This was a rare moment. The other two closets on odd keys, the people who need to get in have keys.
Time to step back, and look at the bigger picture, again. You're right, that I need to step back and look at the process, etc. Thanks for getting me thinking.
Christopher A. Young Learn more about Jesus www.lds.org .
So, if you've managed to leave them so the only key that does work is on your person, what _should_ they do?
Sounds like the bad planning is on your end to me...
(Church trustee; there's a full set to everything in cabinet in closet off the office...)
--



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*** snipped-for-privacy@hotmail.com says...

Perhaps the least expensive thing to do would be to take the door lock for that closet to a locksmith and have them make it so the "master" keys also operate that door?
And the question is... If someone can be trusted with a "master" key, is there any reason you would not want those people to also be able to access that closet?
Are they thieves? :-)
(If they are Mormons... Well Mormons are known for their honesty and trustworthiness. So not to worry!)
And if your church falls into a pool of money or you have a locksmith in the congregation, then perhaps a review of all door locks and which keys should be allowed to open what would be in order...
Maybe you would allow the community (non congregation people) to use certain rooms say for a class or whatever. And would not want to give them access to anything else? But maybe access to the lighting controls might be necessary?
Or maybe to a kitchen? Bathrooms if those are locked?
Etc.
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The church has its own people who repin the locks, so that's less of an issue. That closed used to be under care of a different subset of the people. It may be time to repin that lock, will have to float the idea and see if anyone cares.
Thanks for helping think out the situation.
Anyway, do you have any comment on the original question I asked?
Christopher A. Young Learn more about Jesus www.lds.org .
Perhaps the least expensive thing to do would be to take the door lock for that closet to a locksmith and have them make it so the "master" keys also operate that door?
And the question is... If someone can be trusted with a "master" key, is there any reason you would not want those people to also be able to access that closet?
Are they thieves? :-)
(If they are Mormons... Well Mormons are known for their honesty and trustworthiness. So not to worry!)
And if your church falls into a pool of money or you have a locksmith in the congregation, then perhaps a review of all door locks and which keys should be allowed to open what would be in order...
Maybe you would allow the community (non congregation people) to use certain rooms say for a class or whatever. And would not want to give them access to anything else? But maybe access to the lighting controls might be necessary?
Or maybe to a kitchen? Bathrooms if those are locked?
Etc.
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On Dec 7, 2:05pm, "Stormin Mormon"

I'm not sure the original question applies anymore.
If you are the only one who has a working key to every door then they are dependent on you. You can't change that dependence but you can change the process to eliminate it.
Your plan to float the idea of re-pinning of the closet so that there are multiple keys that work will solve that problem to a large extent. If they are in any way an understanding organization, the simple explanation of "I can not be expected to be available 24-7 to run over to the church to unlock doors, so let's spread the responsibility around a bit" should work.
Maybe 4 people with working keys on call for a week at a time would work. Maybe consider a combination locked key cabinet so that a phone call gets users the combo in an emergency and the combo is changed soon afterwards. That would at least allow the situation to be handled from a distance and save a trip.
Bottom line is that as long as you are the only one with a full set of working keys - and a phone - they will always be dependent on you. The power to fix that is in your own hands.
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I can think of probably 5 people in the congregation who have a key to that door, so it renders the rest of your comment less than useful..
Christopher A. Young Learn more about Jesus www.lds.org .
Bottom line is that as long as you are the only one with a full set of working keys - and a phone - they will always be dependent on you. The power to fix that is in your own hands.
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Well, since you didn't mention that in your first post, why didn't you simply tell the caller "Sorry, I'm not able to come by the church the right now. Please try calling (insert names of the other key holders) to see if one of them is available."
If you are trying to not foster dependence on you and only you, you should be letting people know that they have other options.
Besides, how can you call my comments useless since I suggested that you set up a rotation amongst the key holders? If there's at least 6 people who have a key, then no one would be on call more than once every 6 weeks. My comment to set up a rotation still stands, but it's up to you to approach the others (or the board) to put the process in place.
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I'm not the only person with a set of keys and a phone. Your last post was based on that premise.
As to your suggestion of some kind of rotation. That's interesting, but doesn't reallly adress my original questsion. How do I know when to run over and rescue them, versus decline or hand them off?
Christopher A. Young Learn more about Jesus www.lds.org .
Well, since you didn't mention that in your first post, why didn't you simply tell the caller "Sorry, I'm not able to come by the church the right now. Please try calling (insert names of the other key holders) to see if one of them is available."
If you are trying to not foster dependence on you and only you, you should be letting people know that they have other options.
Besides, how can you call my comments useless since I suggested that you set up a rotation amongst the key holders? If there's at least 6 people who have a key, then no one would be on call more than once every 6 weeks. My comment to set up a rotation still stands, but it's up to you to approach the others (or the board) to put the process in place.
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I had a similar 'job' with a church in very rural NC. No one wanted the job of key keeper. I found an old key safe (came from an old hotel) with a simple but secure coding system where I could change the pass code when it was convenient for me.
I kept the keys but had duplicates in the pigeon holes in the key safe. When folk wanted in they called I gave the code to the keys they needed with instructions to lock up and put the key in a slot box by the key safe.
Worked for me for years and to my knowledge is still working for my replacement.
New youth pastor is a computer nut and is planning a wifi remote automated controlled system that can be locked/unlocked by cell phone.
I'm waiting for him to find out (the hard way) that the electrical panned is behind one of the locked doors.
Prayer is a strong thing but I doubt it's strong enough to unlock an electric lock when the powers out ... and then and then along comes those pesky ice storms.
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That sounds like a very workable solution. Thank you for sharing.
Christopher A. Young Learn more about Jesus www.lds.org .
I had a similar 'job' with a church in very rural NC. No one wanted the job of key keeper. I found an old key safe (came from an old hotel) with a simple but secure coding system where I could change the pass code when it was convenient for me.
I kept the keys but had duplicates in the pigeon holes in the key safe. When folk wanted in they called I gave the code to the keys they needed with instructions to lock up and put the key in a slot box by the key safe.
Worked for me for years and to my knowledge is still working for my replacement.
New youth pastor is a computer nut and is planning a wifi remote automated controlled system that can be locked/unlocked by cell phone.
I'm waiting for him to find out (the hard way) that the electrical panned is behind one of the locked doors.
Prayer is a strong thing but I doubt it's strong enough to unlock an electric lock when the powers out ... and then and then along comes those pesky ice storms.
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I'm not quite sure why you seem to be fighting with me over this, but if that's your mood, go right ahead.
How was I or anyone else supposed to know that you are not the only one with the key? The fact that all you said was that they called you and you went over, without mentioning that they could have called someone else, seemed to imply, at least to me, that you were the only option. My apologies for not being able to read your mind from this far away.
As far as how to "know when to run over and rescue them, versus decline or hand them off" I believe I addressed that. If you set up a rotation, then you rescue them during your week and hand them off during the others. Of course, if the rotation is set up, then it should be posted where others can find it and you may not get any calls except during your week.
You asked for a suggestion on how to stop them from always calling you. I offered a suggestion. You found my suggestion "interesting", yet you are still asking me to address your original question of "how to stop them from calling Chris".
This circle is making me dizzy.
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*** snipped-for-privacy@hotmail.com says...

If it is the *same* person having the *same* trouble again and again.
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...but of course the closet is locked and only one person has the key. ;-)
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Oh, that hurt.
Christopher A. Young Learn more about Jesus www.lds.org .
wrote:

...but of course the closet is locked and only one person has the key. ;-)
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On 12/6/2012 2:59 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote: ...

Au contraire, the closet _is_ locked, but there's a key to it available from within the office if one only knows where'st to look...
And, there are any number of office keys including some in hidey-holes...
A newbie may not know where to look precisely w/o a phone call, but the likelihood of somebody else having to do more than answer the phone call is quite low.
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