OT: College is a rip off

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Amazing how many of those kids do well and prosper when they want to. Tough to do, but they do it.
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On 10/18/2011 10:15 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

...if they are lucky enough not to suffer permanent brain damage from childhood malnutrition, chronic brainwashing by their peers and seniors who convince them they are losers for life, and/or from multiple concussions from beatings and fights. There's a lot of luck involved here, not only motivation. Medical science still does not understand why some motivated youngsters seem to be able to overcome severe physical and/or environmental insults but others don't. The epidemiology is strongly against overcoming really bad circumstances. Only a small percentage manage to escape their background.
How do you propose to encourage diligence in the typical slum dwelling kid? Apparently further punishing them with deprivation doesn't work, and after a certain age (early to mid-teenage), most will not respond to the best efforts to help them.
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The problem with that is that I haven't seen any indications that the state systems are any better. Multiple foster families, being carted around place to place.

But there in lies the rub, to my mind. Good environments in the System are very rare, at least from my experience in dealing with them.
--
People thought cybersex was a safe alternative,
until patients started presenting with sexually
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Mostly because some (too many) parents do not have time to spend with the kids or do not feel like it. I wish we could change fertility so that proof of parenting ability was necessary to produce offspring.
--
Best regards
Han
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On 10/18/2011 1:32 PM, Han wrote:

...and a certain modicum of common sense and intelligence is necessary to gain the right to vote. The unsolved problem with democracy (not that any society has developed the optimal system) is that given enough time, circumstances tend to devolve to the lowest common denominator: our basest instincts of self-righteousness and greed.
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On 10/18/11 01:38 pm, Peter wrote:

Jay Leno's "Street Walking" segment last night (could have been a repeat) interviewed some US-born young people whose ignorance was appalling. One young woman initially said there was only one Senator and two Supreme Court Justices, and could not name a country adjoining the USA! The other two whose interviews he showed weren't much better.
Perce
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Maybe Jeopardy should be compulsory viewing and listening, with a quiz afterwards ...
--
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Han
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Do you think that they'd air the interview where the person was pointing out that the question was ambiguous or in error, and Leno was using the English language incorrectly?
Stupid sells on television. It makes some viewers feel superior. It makes me feel like smacking the people responsible for the programming.
R
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On 10/18/11 09:54 pm, RicodJour wrote:

Most of the questions were taken from (or based on) the pool that applicants for citizenship are expected to be able to answer. In fact there is no question about a country adjoining the USA, but it's truly mind-boggling that a person born and educated in the USA would not know the answer. When pressed, the young woman answered "Europe," but then said, "Oh no, that's a continent, isn't it?"
The citizenship test asks why the flag has 50 stars. Jay asked her how many stars the flag has, and she answered "53, one for each state."
At one point she told Jay, "I thought you said this was going to be fun."
BTW, I think I got the name of the segment wrong: I think it's "Jay Walking."
Perce
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In the future, I would dearly appreciate it if you snipped more accurately, and answer each person individually. You have responded to two posts, and rolled them into one, and answered it rather vaguely.
Outcome based education, I'd guess.
Steve
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You're joking right? There's nothing remotely vague about Peter's reply. He didn't snip anything at all, so there's no lack of accuracy in it. Your initial line was quoted as Han's reply would not have made sense without it.
BTW, the definition of a decaying society is what an aging person thinks of its current manifestation as seen through the haze of nostalgia.
"Our youth now love luxury. They have bad manners, contempt for authority; they show disrespect for their elders and love chatter in place of exercise; they no longer rise when elders enter the room; they contradict their parents, chatter before company; gobble up their food and tyrannize their teachers." -- Socrates
R
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On 10/18/2011 1:38 PM, Peter wrote: (snip)

And that is the conundrum. I'd rather stupid people didn't vote, but I don't trust the government, or anyone employed by them, to decide who is and is not stupid.
--
aem sends...

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On 10/18/11 01:32 pm, Han wrote:

And "parents do not have time to spend with the kids" is often because there is only one parent (usually the mother, because the father ran out on her), who is working two part-time jobs with no benefits just to keep a roof over their heads and food on the table.
Perce
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They have an excuse. Too many don't have that.
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Han
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On 10/18/2011 4:32 PM, Han wrote:

And can you cite an authoritative reference for that opinion? I suspect that the majority of the kids that most need parenting reside in a non-traditional home. Most of the time it is father who is missing. Sometimes both parents are missing and the kid is raised by grandparents or aunts. I think that the number of "bad" kids who have grown up in comfortable middle class settings with both parents living under the same roof but completely neglecting their parental role is dwarfed by the number of "bad" kids who had to grow up in horribly dysfunctional homes through absolutely no fault of their own.
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It's just my opinion and hearsay: Credentials: 3 of my 4 grandchildren are of schoolgoing age (between 5 and 15 now). My daughter and my SIL are both high school teachers (physics and math).
I agree that certainly in the less advantaged school districts of my daughter & SIL, the single parent family with LOTS of problems is the norm, but that doesn't exclude the neglacting by other families.
--
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Han
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grandchildren

(In the latter paragraph I forgot to add that the neglect is often thru no fault of the parents since they are too busy providing basics, certainly in this economy)
--
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Han
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wrote:

While I was at a UC during the 90's my boss served on various committees. I was able to share in the knowledge he gleaned from serving on these committees.
One that applies well to the discussion at hand was a committee "undergraduate learning experience".
UC's real mission is research, teaching of undergrads is "sidelight".
One of the biggest takeaways was ...... undergrads working (jobs unrelated to their majors) had insufficient time to adequately address their studies. LIke, duh!
But the real secret was, most weren't working to pay for school, they were working for the "extras"; cars, entertainment, 'toys', vacations, etc
Their undergrad studies were not their top or only priority, they had chosen to spread themselves thin and their education suffered as a result.
I see this as a failure of parenting, failure to instill the concept of learning / study as full time (actually more than full time) work.
cheers Bob
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Hard to argue Steve's post, having seen what he described up close for many years.
cheers Bob
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Ed Pawlowski wrote:

Unemployment rate, 25 years and over, college degree: 4.5%
"The Employment Situation" Sept 2011, U.S. Bureau of Labor Statistics http://www.bls.gov/news.release/pdf/empsit.pdf
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