Once again, you are speaking in overly simplistic terms. A binary
world: "cannot control themselves" versus can "control" themselves does
not exist. I don't even think Ghandi was always able to "control"
himself. There is an almost infinite spectrum between poor self-control
and good self-control.
And, doesn't creativity require a certain amount of absence of
self-control? The highly self-controlled person is not likely to think
for himself because he is hard wired to be obedient to authority and is
subliminally if not consciously fearful of how to respond if an
unfamiliar situation is encountered. A good robot perhaps, but not a
creative problem solver.
It is hard to engage you in dialogue because clearly you are HIGHLY
self-controlled and can not imagine alternate positions to the ones you
profess. You will accuse me of being equally set in my beliefs that
contradict yours and we will get nowhere. Neither one of us will ever
convince the other. I guess that's OK if we both share the belief that
we should live and let live as long as we do not impose our beliefs on
each other's space. However, if one of us believes that the other is so
sick and misguided that the other doesn't deserve the autonomy to make a
choice that really does not affect his space, that's when the real
On Oct 20, 9:44 pm, firstname.lastname@example.org wrote:
Self control is another way of saying discipline, and something
controlled is constrained. People in the military are normally
thought to have a lot of discipline, a lot of self control and a lot
Peter's premise, while overly broad, is still valid, as is yours.
You're both just looking at it from the opposite ends of the tube.
Peter I am surprised that you feel that way. Of course people can
control everything in the world. It's quite clear. Tony Robbins does
it on an hourly basis.
People that can control everything don't have health problems, don't
get divorced, don't have people they love get killed in car accidents
or Iraq, can control the voting process, elections, large scale
economic conditions, create money at will as necessary, and - my
personal favorite - inherently know the strengths and pitfalls of all
of their DNA (including the "junk" DNA that is largely stymieing the
finest scientific brains in the world) and can easily avoid said
pitfalls. Like dying. It's really trivial stuff for someone truly in
You are arguing with someone that believes he can control everything
in his life, or is at least proclaiming such to bolster his world
view. You know - delusional.
Believing that any person exists outside their environment, and is
largely immune to it, is a specious argument.
Thanks for the validation. Do you think Steve will get your sarcasm in
the first paragraph of your reply immediately above? I suspect he will
take it literally and interpret your reply as an endorsement of his
On Fri, 21 Oct 2011 02:07:30 -0400, "Robert Green"
Actually I think it is more like, when the species is stressed it
throws mutations and birds are born with all sorts of different beaks
and other mutations. The ones that work best with the available food
or other environmental factors survive and the rest die out.
<<Read Darwin's Radio if you haven't already. Fiction, but written by a
Caltech professor, and good stuff.>>
I'll look for it.
<Yep, that National Geographic program on dogs was excellent.>
I thought it was NOVA's "Dogs by Design." I'm sure there's a lot of
overlap between the two. I think it was the one that had the border collie
that could recognize and fetch 1,000 different dog toys by name - or by
being shown a picture of a similar item. My dog can recognize about 10
different objects by name and if one's not available, she'll bring ALL of
<<That's where you'd be wrong. That's like saying that your car's
computer is just storage space since you don't have conscious access
I may not have phrased that well. Your PC has a lot of different subunits.
GPU's, math-specific components, audio components, storage component, "short
term" memory components, pattern matching components, I/O components, etc.
They're not all active at the same time. Most often, the PC is sitting
there in an endless loop waiting for a key to be pressed. )-:
Just looking at FMRI's that show which part of the brain "lights up"
indicate that processing takes places in different areas of the brain that
move around according to the task at hand. The FMRI's only light up a very
large portion of the brain in people with schizophrenia, IIRC. What I am
trying to say is that only 5% of the entire brain in functioning at one
time, but it's an ever-changing 5%, depending on the task at hand.
On Fri, 21 Oct 2011 12:07:20 -0400, "Robert Green"
Here's a simple method to measure a dog's smarts - fast.
Tease it with a biscuit, then put it on the floor and quickly cover it
with an opaque plastic bowl.
My late smart dog wasn't fooled. If she couldn't nose the bowl over
she'd smack it with paws until it flipped.
With my 2 current dumb dogs, when the bowl goes over the biscuit, it
has disappeared to them. No further interest at all.
My late smart dog was easily trained.
Played in strings section of the Chicago Symphony Orchestra until she
refused to put on her disguise any more.
Just letting all know unless their dog can beat that I don't want hear
their dog stories.
Have to say "sit" twice for one of my dumb dogs, and about 4 times for
Love them all the same once they're house-trained.
But my smart dog was devious and would play me.
Out-smarted me more than once.
Especially with crossword puzzles.
Your dumb dogs have outsmarted you, too. They've trained you to say
sit two or four times. ;)
My dog would eat McDonald's fries but wouldn't touch Burger King
fries. I stopped eating Burger King fries after that. Never had the
chance to ask him about his take on the whole cholesterol and trans
My favorite dog observation: If you think dogs can't count, take two
biscuits out of the box and only give them one.
Regrettably our dog has trained us. I yelled at her for scooting her butt
on the living room carpet. Now, when she wants my attention when I'm busy
it's a veritable scoot-fest. She's been offered a job in the Obama
adminstration. Hey, how bad could she be compared to some of them?
I managed to train her to whizz in one side of the dual slop sink and poop
on an old 16x20 photo tray lined with newspaper. I cut up an old box fan
grille so she doesn't stand in her own piss, although I probably don't need
it - she's figured out how the sink slopes and points her head in the far
corner and her butt right over the drain. When there's two feet of snow
outside it's nice not to have to suit up like a lunar explorer just to empty
the dog. You should have seen the beginning efforts when I tried to train
her with both cat litter and dog litter. Terriers are instinctive diggers.
You can guess the rest.
She's lying on the bed next to me, having one hell of a twitchy dream. We
started letting her sleep at the very foot of the bad, and day by day she's
advanced upward just an inch or two until she's within head-scratching
distance. She apparently believes that crawling slowly forward is an
acceptable exception to the "stay" rule.
After Katrina, a number of folks got relocated to Salt Lake City, Wichita,
Reno, and other places without a tradition of living off the dole for
generations. The common refrain was: "All I gots to do is stand behind the
counter and make Slurpees? And I gets PAID for it? Damn! Dat's cool!"
WOW! Are you psychic, or just psychotic? Change a few words here and
there, and that's me. My Mom ran off with a truck driver, leaving Dad to
raise my sis and me in a 8 x 35 "trailer". Now they call them "manufactured
homes". Dad was okay when he wasn't working, down at the bar, or somewhere
we didn't know where he was.
I had two great role models. I knew what I DIDN'T want to grow up to be
Funny, but I believe there are many millionaires, billionaires, or just
plain "rich folks", as Barry bigotedry calls them, who came from situations
you describe. Even poor little Barry himself raised himself out of the
gutters of Kenya to his current position.
Getting shorted or abused or abandoned or neglected in your life isn't
license to think mankind owes you big time. 1 out of 2 females is sexually
abused in their life. 1 in 3 males. A high percent are neglected or
abandoned, or are throw aways, their parents not caring when they leave
home, just welcome the relief from the responsibility. So any time you get
together with 99 other people, it would be difficult to find the Beaver
Cleaver in the group.
People are not responsible for their circumstances. They are responsible
for how they react to them, and the choices they make for themselves.
Or, they could just become a liberal.
The late Dave Thomas, founder of Wendy's, was an orphan who not only became
a millionaire, but donated a great deal of time and money to causes
concerning orphans and abandoned children. People like you and Dave can
break the cycle, but I think it takes an exceptional person to start with.
Most people from bad or broken families just recreate the abysmal
circumstances of their youth. Children of drunkards and drug abusers never
get an even break from the day they are born because they suffer
developmental issues from being exposed to drugs and alcohol in the womb.
Again I thank God that I was born to fairly normal middle class parents who
only occasionally tried to kill each other. (-"
You are either ignorant of facts or deliberately distorting and
falsifying them. Barry did not raise himself out of the gutter of
Kenya. He was the child of parents who met in college, in Hawaii. His
father who was born in Kenya, returned there after his parents divorced,
when Barry was 3. From ages 6-10 he attended local schools in Jakarta,
Indonesia. He moved back to Hawaii, lived with his maternal
grandparents, and attended a private college prep school. Those are the
facts. He NEVER lived in the gutters of Kenya and never raised himself.
He had very close relationships with a loving and nurturing mother and
maternal grandparents. He was in Kenya for the first time in his life
in 1988, when he was 27 years old, to visit his paternal relatives for
the first time.
Those are the facts. You may not like him or his politics but that does
not justify claiming an entirely false biography for him.
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