New shutoff valve - how to sweat in?

[PDQ]

Remove the stem and handle before you apply the heat and replace them = after the faucet cools down.

--=20 PDQ

-- "RichK" wrote in message = news:UZ-dnUXXBMkIWfXZnZ2dnUVZ [e-mail]... | Hi All, |=20 | I've replaced several valves (standard shutoff) over the years, the = ones you | turn several times, to open/close. There may be proper name for them, = but I | do not know. |=20 | It seems to be hit/miss proposition for me. Some of them leak at the = shaft, | after installing. |=20 | I suspect the reason is that the rubber gasket gets cooked during the | heating process. Many valves have a rubber parts in two places, one = where | they close the flow and another around the shaft. |=20 | How do you guys manage to get the valve installed without overheating = the | rubber parts inside? Any tricks? |=20 | Regards, |=20 | RichK |=20 |

[RichK]

Hi All,

I've replaced several valves (standard shutoff) over the years, the ones you turn several times, to open/close. There may be proper name for them, but I do not know.

It seems to be hit/miss proposition for me. Some of them leak at the shaft, after installing.

I suspect the reason is that the rubber gasket gets cooked during the heating process. Many valves have a rubber parts in two places, one where they close the flow and another around the shaft.

How do you guys manage to get the valve installed without overheating the rubber parts inside? Any tricks?

Regards,

RichK

[barry]

What works for me:

1. Disassemble valve as possible first.
2. Heat area to be sweated as intensely and for as little time as possible.

Usual picky stuff about cleaning, fluxing, etc.

YMWV, J

[hallerb]

remove the handle stem then sweat. then reinstall after its cool, this mahes it easier to get it hot enough, so bbetter seal.

be certain to clean all parts, flux all parts. then heat the part not the solder. heating the valve body rather than the pipe helps suck the soder into the joint

[E]

They are called gate valves. Like the other said - remove the stem before applying heat

[RichK]

Thanks ALL for suggestions. I've tried that on one valve, but had *ell of a time removing the stem and ruined the valve in the end.

Guess I have to polish my valve disassembly technique :-)

RichK

[hallerb]

you using ball valves? those you sweat threaded fittings on the pipe then they thread onto the valve using teflon tape.

ball valves are the best, they never corrode, leak, or get stiff. a quarter turn by pushing the lever turns the water off fast in a emergency. they never obstruct the flow, since open is completely open/

eventually i will have all ball valves here, anytime one is changed or replaced thats all i install

[digitalmaster]

get a bucket of water and a couple of rags.Wrap a wet rag around the stem and solder as usual...then apply other wet rags to cool the rest of the valve.BE CAREFUL as the reags will make steam when you apply them the the hot valve...wear gloves.

plumbers.pipefitters,service technicians local 72 card number 1465687

[RichK]

Guess not. Ball valves are the type with stright handle - right?

I've been using valves with round handles - several turns to close/open.

Is the cost about the same?

Regards,

RichK

[Toller]

That, and open the valve first. I've only done a couple but they have been fine. Or, dare I say it, glue. I have used epoxy on a few joints I didn't want to heat, and have recently purchased a CA glue, but haven't tried it yet. (the epoxy worked fine, but has a lousy shelf life.)

[Steve Barker LT]

What he described is not necessarily a gate valve. Could be a conventional washer type valve.

[hallerb]

ball valves cost more, but valves are realtively cheap. ball valves dont cost more than twice the price of a regular turn valve. money very well spent.

[Steve Barker LT]

Cost is not an issue. The ball valve is the only way to go. All others should be outlawed.

[RichK]

Do ball valves use any rubber inside to seal? If not that would be my future choice.

RichK

[hallerb]

ball valves use a stainless ball with plastic insert that does the sealing.

I have NEVER EVER had a gate valve fail! they dont corrode

[Dan Lanciani]

A few years back I had a fair bit of plumbing replaced. The plumber used all ball valves, mostly Apollo with a few Watts. Most of these valves have failed. The most common failure is that the valves no longer fully shut off the flow of water. One leaked at the seam where the end cap fits into the case and another developed a pinhole leak in the casting itself. Now obviously this last problem could have happened with any style valve, but the other issues are really annoying because there is no way to repair these ball valves in place. For the valve that controls water to the sprinkler system it goes beyond annoying since it really needs to be off in the winter. (As it turns out there is a second valve--very hard to get to at the end of a crawlspace--that in conjunction with the main valve seems to shut the sprinkler off "well enough.")

The water in my city can be pretty bad. Especially when they are "flushing the system" we get substantial hard particle content. My theory is that some of these particles get trapped in the valve and then score the Teflon seal the next time the valve is closed. Or not. In any case, I now specify gate or globe valves exclusively, and I get a few spares so I can swap the whole stem assembly if necessary.

Dan Lanciani ddl@danlan.*com

[Stormin Mormon]

Wrap the valve in a wet towel. Careful not to get the fitting wet. This will keep the valve from getting too hot. If talking with plumbers, say "wet rag" not towel.

[bob kater]

[E]

Ball valves have a small layer of teflon (I believe) coating between the actual ball and the valve housing to acomodate the tight fit of the ball in the valve. I've never had a problem though with that "melting" when applying heat (Always make sure the valve is open though when applying heat).

I perfer the ball valves over gate valves simply for the reason that you can tell if the valve is open or closed from across the room.

[E]

Then you've never lived in a house that is supplied via a point with hard water :)

I just got through replacing several gate valves on my heating system because they were corroded. They would not turn off without much force (they probably had not been closed in a decade or so) and once I got the stem to turn they leaked. I pulled the stem and the bottom part of the gate was just compleatly gone (and of course the valves were so old that the stems that I have for replacement wouldn't fit so it was just as easy to replace the whole valve). Had to replace valve after valve as I "walked" down the line trying to get the water turned off to fix the original problem (faulty corroded blow off valve on the burner).

Hard water will corrode anything over time.