Neighbor disputes my property line location

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MiamiCuse wrote:

You just pointed out after the fact a good reason for getting a survey prior to your closing the deal on that house. If you had, the seller might have been able to get further with his neighbor than you, the new kid on the block are getting now.
As others have said, you've got to decide which way you want to push your problem, you'll likely not be able to end up with both your fence where you want it and a good relationship with that neighbor. Take your pick.
**************************
Ah feel yur pain, 'cause a new neighbor swiped about 300 square feet of our home's lot a couple of years ago when I wasn't paying close enough attention to what his landscapers were doing. He had them build some stone retaining walls and planted grass and shrubs on an uncleared portion of our lot which we weren't using. 15+ years of tree and brush growth had dulled my memories of where the original survey lines were.
Before I mentioned anything to him I hired a surveyor and spent about $1,250 getting the lines restaked. A couple of the new survey markers ended up plunked into his new lawn. This time I made sure I took several photos of the survey markers in relation to fixed objects so I can use the pictures for future reference.
I approached the neighbor and asked if he'd be willing to buy the land he was using from me, for it's proportionate tax assessed value (about $6,000) or perhaps do a deal with me to annually reimburse the property taxes I pay on that bit of land (about $90/year nowadays.)
He stalled me for a few months, and I finally decided that it wasn't worth getting into a pissing contest with the guy over a bit of land I'd prolly never want to use anyway, or get involved in a legal hassle which would undoubtedly benefit my lawyer more than it would me. (Like my uncle Schlomo used to say, "What do you expect from a pig but a grunt?")
Even putting up an ugly fence along my property line through part of what he'd turned into "his yard" would be an expense that wouldn't gain me anything, but would give the neighbor reason to hate my guts and perhaps do nasty hard to prove things to our property or pets.
So, this way I'm still able to wave hello to him when we're both outside. He returns the wave, and then I turn away so he doesn't see me muttering "asshole" under my breath.
That neighbor put his place up for sale a few months ago and I called the listing realtor, introduced myself, and told her to make darn sure she told potential buyers where the property line was. She seemed to understand. Maybe the next owner of that home will have a more responsible attitude towards things and want to do a deal with me over "my land" when they buy the place. It still does piss me off a little four times a year when I'm writing a check to our town for property tax and I remember that the neighbor is enjoying the use of part of "his" back yard "tax free".
BTW, adverse possession isn't a factor in our case. Our lot is a class of property called "Registered Land" here in Massachusetts, and we retain the right to kick any encroacher off no matter how long they've "borrowed" the use of part of it.
Jeff
--
Jeffry Wisnia
(W1BSV + Brass Rat \'57 EE)
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On Wed, 21 Jun 2006 18:14:55 -0400, Jeff Wisnia

I'm not at all suggesting that the op put his fence where the neighbor says his line is, but if he does do something like that, the OP should take steps to prevent the neighbor from gaining adverse possession.
For one thing, he should, and I'm no;t sure the best method for later proof, notify the nbor that although he is building the fence inside his property line, he is not waiving his right to the rest of his property, and he is granting PERMISSION to the nbor to use it until the OP wants it back. In a way this could be the worst of both worlds-- he won't have the land and the nbor may well be angry, but otoh, the nbor may sell the house in 3 years, or for some other reason the OP may want to pursue his valid claim, and this will keep the time from now until then from being included in the 7 years I think someone said Florida required for adverse possession.
Even this piece of this is complicated, and it might be adviseable to see if the nbor has any chance of ever getting adverse possiession. Do they require claim of right in Florida? For that matter, the state of Louisiana is governed in some or large part by French law. Is Florida at any rate affected by Spanish law? I've never heard that.
Do all 6 parts of the Eunuch rule of adverse possession apply in Florida? Are there additional requirements?
BTW, there are questions of proof. In the same way the OP may not be able to get support from his seller that the neighbor knew where the propertyh line was etc. or that he gave him permission to use that strip, the mail forwarding for the seller will expire soon, and unless he has an unusual name, he may be unfindable by the nbor. Thus, although he may be able to prove it with his own friend's or his kids' friends, the nbor might not be able to prove he was using the OP's land before the OP got there, or 7 years before, even if he was. So maybe the adverse possession time will "toll" only after the OP bought the house.
How long has the n'bor owned his house. I think the time limit starts anew when the house is sold. Lots of legal questions here, maybe the legal ng can answer some.

Good for you. There might be more that you can do.

Verry interesting.

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Any advice?
You have a terrible record of asking very important financial and legal questions here. Your first one was your series of questions about IRS liens, IIRC.
You have persisted in asking those very important financial and legal questions here with resect to this transaction despite being advised literally dozens of times by at least a half dozen people that you should hire a real estate lawyer in Dade County to get your legal advice. Apparently, you
What does the lawyer who represented you in this transaction say about the car on the property which you allege is yours?
You noticed the car before the closing and after the survey, right?
You told your lawyer about the car before the closing, right?
Your lawyer did advise you to get buyer's title insurance, right?
You took your lawyer's advice and bought buyer's title insurance, right?
Go to your lawyer and the title insurance company and have them handle this.
Oh, you didn't hire a lawyer ? You wetre saving money on a multi hundred thousand dollar invesmen, so you didn't want to spend $ 2 grand?
You didn't get buyer's title insurance because on a multi hundred thousand dollar investment you wanted to save $ 1,500?
Sad.
But at least you saved lawyer's fees and the buyer's title insurance premium.
You are too inept to own property.
--
Jim McLaughlin

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And you must be...a lawyer. What a terrible, inept, predictable answer. Sure to keep him coming back for more "well reasoned" advice at $350.00 per hour as opposed to all the great advice he got here.:-)
-- Cheri
Jim McLaughlin wrote in message ...

legal
should
the
right?
this.
hundred
thousand
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Cute.
Stupid.
But cute.
I'm just somebody who actually looks at property before I buy it, notes obvious issues and insists on the seller resolving them befor I part with a quarter million bucks.
Apparently neither you nor miamicuse find such everyday caution prudent.
Sort of like this farce posted by miamicuse, as well as the two days ago post by miamicuse whining about a van apparently left on he front of the property by his sellers.
Or is this newy found car the same as the van miamicuse was ostng about a day r two ago.
Miamicuse is too stupid to be allowed out withiut an escort.
--
Jim McLaughlin

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On Wed, 21 Jun 2006 16:31:06 -0700, "Cheri" <gserviceatinreachdotcom> wrote:

You must be smiling because you know that none of the legal advice he got here is reliable.
Some posts disagree with other posts, even on the legal issues. How do you suggest he decide who is right?
Did you buy title insurance for your house and the lot it is on?
If not, what will you do if there is an error in the title?
Do you buy homeowner's insurance, health insurance, or life insurance?

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Jim:
I do not understand why you have this hostile atitude towards my queries. I find the answers provided here very informative. Why would you assume that this is the only place I am soliciting answers? Why would you assume I did not hire a lawyer? Why do you assume you have the complete picture based on several posts made by me on different subjects? I think what I am asking is a common sense question that probably needs a common sense answer before I resort to legal channels, so if next time someone walks the dog and let the dog crap on my front door, and I ask for advise would your advise be to hire a lawyer too? See my answers to your questions inline below.
MC
"Jim McLaughlin" <jim.mclaughlin> wrote in message

Yes, the property has an IRS lien. The lien last ten years if it does not refile. I bought the property ten days after the ten year anniversary expired. It is the job of the title company to search and handle this matter. They have verified that no refiling has occured and even if so it would be against the previous owner and would not have transferred to the property since the ownership has changed. I have purchased title insurance. In fact, I have paid for title insurance for the lender AND title insurance for myself for extra insurance.

Why do you assume I did not hire an RE lawyer to handle the transaction? Is hiring a lawyer and seeking common sense advise mutually exclusive?

Transaction is over. I own the property now. The closing happened a month ago. My lawyer is no longer involved.

Yes.
No. It is irrelevant. I do not understand your point. At the time I purchased the property there is a tenant occupying the house. I naturally assumed the car is his. There is no reason to assume otherwise.

Yes, and I did.

What is your point?

this.
thousand
The problem, I think is that truly intelligent people know they are intelligent, the not so intelligent ones know they are not so intelligent. The truly stupid people are too stupid to know they are stupid and they actually think they are smart. So they sit at the bottom of a well, keep looking up and keep telling others how small and round the sky is.

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Please God, do not make this person my neighbor. I have suffered enough.
-- Cheri

queries. I

that
did
based on
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When someone responds to you like he did, just ignore them. You have better things to do with your time and attention than spending any of it on such a bitter asshole who is trying to get a rise out of you, and being provocative for its own sake.
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Abe wrote:

He? I've long thought the OP was a she...
That "cuse" part misled me...
Oh yeah, it's spelled "cooze", sorry.
Jeff
--
Jeffry Wisnia
(W1BSV + Brass Rat \'57 EE)
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Several have suggested using the county web site and lot descriptions. That's a free way to reconfirm your survey is correct. There's one more step that no one has mentioned so far. Since you've just bought the house and had a new survey, go back to the lawyer you used during closing and explain the problem to him. That initial consultation shouldn't cost you anything, and it may be that the easiest way to get the car moved is to pay the lawyer for a couple of hours of work to solve the problem in a completely open and legal way.
You DID use a lawyer at closing, right?
-- Regards
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Before you get in too deep I'd suggest getting a survey done that includes the placement of boundary markers by the surveyor and results in you receiving a drawing showing those markers from the surveyor that bears his signature and seal. Surveys done for title companies are sometimes less than perfect.
If the surveyor has to affix his seal and signature he will search far enough back, and verify the boundaries well enough to protect his professional reputation, license and E&O (Errors & Omissions) insurance carrier. Also, you will be his client, not the bank.
There is a good chance the the boundary is not exactly where you or your neighbor think it is.
Boden
MiamiCuse wrote:

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MiamiCuse wrote:

Hi, Oh, boy. Looks like you gotta nightmare on hand. First he can't park/fix cars like that. My local government won't allow such an acticity. And survey result..... Feel sorry for you becoming his neighbor.
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Simple. Call the police, have the car towed off of your property.
--
Steve Barker



"MiamiCuse" < snipped-for-privacy@earthlink.net> wrote in message
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Well now, EVERYBODY has to weigh in on an important national question like this- so here I come. Why has nobody considered the obvious solution of building the fence through the car? There are many people on this group who can give competent advice about how to put fence posts through a vehicle chassis. You could paint your half of the car to match the fence, or as you choose. On a more tedious note, let me suggest that you take a little time with this, try to meet and talk to other neighbors, people in the area, ask around- not too intrusively- about this guy, see if you can get a sense of other people's judgment about whether he is someone who can be reasoned with. Of course you don't want to have to choose between exercising your rights and getting along with your neighbor- you may have to, but the more you know about what you're getting into before you do.... does he have a police record? A local reputation? I think we do have to stand up to aggressive, hostile people, but usually better to do it in a low key, non-provocative way.
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Of all the advice given, I think the suggestion to offer to bring the surveyor back to meet with the OP and the neighbor is the best idea. The surveyor can explain how he determined the property line. And hearing it from an expert will give the neighbor an opportunity to back down gracefully, if he so choses.
I also have to agree with the comments that it's pretty stupid to close on a property when you can see that there is a disabled car straddling the property line. The time to have dealt with this was before closing, when it was the seller's problem.
If the neighbor refuses to meet with the surveyor or still refuses to accept the correct line and move the car, then I would send a registered letter telling him he has a week to remove the car. Then, I'd consult a lawyer.
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wrote:

I haven't read all the responses, so maybe someone has already written this.
Perhaps your neighbor's attitude would improve if he finds out that he has nine feet *more* land than he thought on the opposite side of his house. In NY City they have deeds on the web, but I'm guessing you could request his from the local agency that keeps such records. Try to get a hold of it. It should define the property. Maybe all the houses on the block are divided that way. If so you'll have some good news to tell him.
Good luck.
Greg Guarino
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MiamiCuse wrote:

Invite him to your house for dinner
http://www.flsenate.gov/cgi-bin/view_page.pl?File=sb0436.html&Directory=session/2005/Senate/bills/billtext/html&Tab=session&Submenu=1
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>..says he disagrees with where the property line is.

CANCEL my post about finding the pins..I finally found that in the long thread.
You re dealing with an idiot and his yard full of Junk Cars.
I'd MAIL him a notice advising him that on a given day, the car was going to be towed. Make a copy and Mail it so it requires a return signature from the recipient. On the day specified, if he hasn't moved it, or comes onto your property to prevent the towing, and IF the tow truck driver hasn't pounded the crap out of him, call the Sheriff's department/local police and advise them that he's on your property obstructing and that there may be trouble.. They should come out and tune the idiot up. Good thing you re building a fence.
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