Need your advice on a good inside automotive tire patch

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On Mon, 7 Dec 2015 16:45:40 -0000 (UTC), "Danny D."

Take it to a real tire shop and have a "mushroom" patch installed. It has a plug and a patch combined.. The "tech" product is one of the best.
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clare wrote, on Mon, 07 Dec 2015 15:30:26 -0500:

My plan is to take up Wheel Works on their offer of a free mushroom patch. I still can't believe that it's free.
I meant to go today, but, when I moved the car onto a flat area, I left the key in the ignition, so the bimmer never went to sleep.
Dunno why that killed the battery - but it did. So it's on the trickle charger as we speak, so, tomorrow I'll take Wheel Works up on their offer of a free mushroom patch.
I still can't believe they're free - so - tomorrow I'll let you know what happens.
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snipped-for-privacy@snyder.on.ca posted for all of us...

See his reply to this post. He has added a new word: FREE
--
Tekkie

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On Mon, 7 Dec 2015 16:45:40 -0000 (UTC), "Danny D."

Wow, 60 posts on "advise to patch a tire". Must be a very complicated repair.
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Ashton Crusher wrote, on Mon, 07 Dec 2015 18:58:06 -0700:

To be fair, the very first response gave the right answer: WWS TEXAS wrote, on Mon, 07 Dec 2015 08:57:48 -0800
The rest is conversation. :)
I'm was gonna take the wheel and tire assembly to Wheel Works today simply because they said it would be free (I asked multiple times because I couldn't believe it) and that it would be a mushroom patchplug style repair from the inside.
They even do the unmounting, remounting, and balancing for that "free" amount (I'm incredulous).
I was fully prepared to do it myself, but, free is too good to pass up (but, I will be wary about them damaging my wheel or not mounting the tire EXACTLY where I match mounted it previously).
So, I "may" unmount the tire myself, and then remount it and rebalance it myself. Dunno yet if I'm gonna go that far, 'cuz free (totally free) is really hard to beat.
I'll let you know tomorrow. I was gonna go today but when I had to put the key in the ignition to straighten the wheels to jack the rear up to remove the tire, I accidentally left the key in the ignition.
Normally a bimmer goes to sleep in 16 minutes, but, apparently it doesn't do that when the key is in the ignition. So it's trickle charging overnight.
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Oren wrote, on Tue, 08 Dec 2015 10:36:10 -0800:

Hi Oren,
The number of posts don't matter (that just means I'm responsive). What matters is what *we* learn. Together. And, how we help each other.
And I *always* appreciate your help and that from the others! And, well, I learned far too much today!
Bad news! The tire is ruined.
Why? I'm soooooooo stupid. So very stupid. It's all my fault.
However, the good news is that I *learned* a lot! And, there's much (much) more to learn about patching tires properly!
I have to run to pick up my sister's kids (they're staying with us "temporarily" for the past year - which is ok with me - as long as my sister's latest loser boyfriend doesn't get on our nerves!), so I haven't uploaded the pictures yet, but, I'm gonna *experiment* with the tire, since I ruined it already.
It turns out that a proper patch requires some special tools and materials, such as explained in this quickie procedure.
1. Mark the hole outside and inside (circle 1/2" outside patch area) 2. Inspect for damage (no visible treads on the inside) 3. Probe the angle & thickness of the hole with a tapered awl 4. Optionally put down a solvent to remove the inside coat 5. Optionally use a half-moon scraper to scrape to vulcanized rubber 6. Buff with a semicircular tire-buffing wheel (2500to5000rpm only!) 7. CRITICAL! Three passes both ways with a carbide cutter!<=== critical! 8. Brass bristle brush and/or vacuum away shavings 9. Fill the hole with cement and around the patch area (to chalk circle) 10 DO NOT TOUCH THE STEM OF THE PATCHPLUG! 11. Pull patchplug through the hole until it slightly dimples 12. Roll a round serrated stitcher across every mm of the patch 13. Optionally add a tire liner sealer to the inside 14. Cut the rubber stem flush outside.
Most of the tools I might get away with a dremel tool (on super low speed) but I think the main tool that I need to buy is the carbide bit which is a special bit to smooth down the sharp ends of the cut belt.
Have you seen these tools in a kit? a. Half-moon scraper b. Semicircular buffing wheel c. Carbide cutter <=== very important d. Stitcher wheel
Anyway, I'll be back, as I took pictures, but I have to run to pick up the kids.
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On Tue, 8 Dec 2015 21:09:16 -0000 (UTC), "Danny D."

Not so smart now, I see.
Better to pay somebody to do it right (particularly with safety related stuff like tires and brakes)
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clare wrote, on Tue, 08 Dec 2015 18:01:16 -0500:

Heh heh ... you totally misunderstand the Dunning-Kruger effect. https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Dunning-Kruger_effect

Heh heh ... that's the kind of advice people give who are *not* on the home-repair or auto-tech groups.
I didn't ruin the tire repairing it. You simply *assumed* that because you *wanted* to assume that.
I never said that.
You clearly have an *agenda* and that agenda is apparently to tell us that we can't repair the simplest of things like tires.
Remind me to ask Oren to tell you how we select and buy and wind our own garage door torsion springs some day. Or how we compress the springs on our struts to replace them.
If you want the job done right, you do it yourself. It's not that the pros don't *know* how to do the job right. It's simply that we do it better because we delve into the details and we care about the results.
We're smart that way.
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On Wed, 9 Dec 2015 04:20:56 -0000 (UTC), "Danny D."

I guess you have to be to drive a B#mmer. Any company that would attach the engine mounts to the block with ALUMINUM BOLTS for crying out loud. Friend's wifes BMW had the engine fall right out of it's mounts when the bolts broke. Dealer cost to remove and replace those bolts? Somrthing like $1600.
It took him almost 4 hours. It's his wifes's car - he hates it but loves his wife. He's been a racer and car guy all his life, as well as an airplane guy (pilot and builder)
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Danny D. wrote:

Sounds like you are better than pro(reap pro) Good for you.
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On Tue, 8 Dec 2015 21:09:16 -0000 (UTC), "Danny D."

The last time I repaired a tire ( punch thru of a screw which I yanked out) I bought a kit with rubber plugs and rubber cement. Greased the hole with cement, put the plug on the inserter tool, shoved it thru form the outside and withdrew the tool. That repair and tire lasted another 20K miles.
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Ashton Crusher wrote, on Tue, 08 Dec 2015 17:48:46 -0700:

There's a right way to do things, and a wrong way, and both work. You did it the wrong way, and that's fine. It's your tire, and I won't knock you for how you repaired it. Both ways work.
For reference, here is a great video on the *right* way:
https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wi5uBUaMsrA

Here's my summary of what that video recommends, along with a bit of research about where I can obtain the tools and chemicals at a good price and in small single-use quantities:
TOOLS: (http://www.vampa.net/category_s/39.htm ) a. Tire repair awl b. Half-moon scraper c. Carbide bit reamer d. Cone-shaped grinding wheel (<5,000RPM) e. PatchPlug f. Stitching tool
FLUIDS: (http://www.vampa.net/category_s/36.htm ) a. Westernweld Inner Liner Pre-Buff Solution Redi-Buff BU32 or BU16S b. Westernweld Self-Vulcanizing Fast Drying Cement SV8 or SV32 c. Westernweld Inner Liner Sealer RS8 or RS32 http://www.vampa.net/product_p/ww-rs32.htm
It's too late now, but I'm gonna call these guys tomorrow to see what I can learn about what is inside those three chemicals above.
Western States Mfg 800-831-4724 www.westernweld.com
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On Wed, 9 Dec 2015 04:25:22 -0000 (UTC), "Danny D."

And to repair perhaps, on a bad year, ONE tire, you are going to stock all that stuff (you will invest a C note pretty quickly) - and 2 years from now when you need it it will be all dried out from sitting in your garage.
Sure you CAN do it - but does it make any sense - and should you - when you can have it repaired free by someone who does it every day and is insured if he screws up??
I fix virtually all my own stuff too - but even I draw limits
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clare wrote, on Wed, 09 Dec 2015 18:14:41 -0500:

It turns out that the minimum you need to fix your own holed tire is the patchplug and something to scrape and stitch the inner liner rubber away (plus lineslman's pliers which everyone has). 1. Patchplug 2. Scraper/stitcher
3. The vulcanizing cement is very easy to come by.
The two sort-of-nice-to-have things are harder to come by though: 4. The smooth flute-sided carbide reamer, and, 5. The inner liner sealer
So, I'm looking for a local source for both of those (#4 & #5). If you have a good idea where to get them, let me know.
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On Thu, 10 Dec 2015 00:20:19 -0000 (UTC), "Danny D."

I always bought mine from the "wagon jobber" who came to my place of business every couple weeks to make sure I had enough valve stems, patches, cement, balance weights, and other tire supplies. Most of my working life that was REMA TIP TOP, and at one location it was Tech Tire.
I always used the cement fast enough that it sisn't go bad in the can - I'd never use it fast enough now to keep it fresh enough to be sure it would always do the job properly..
For tubes I generally had "monkey grips" in stock and the clamp required to use them. If they sit around too long they don't light and burn properly so they don't vulcanize properly. That's the only way to replace a bad valve stem too. (you don't throw away a tractor tire tube just because the valve stem lets go, and you can't use a bolt in stem without a vulcanized "hard spot".
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clare wrote, on Wed, 09 Dec 2015 23:12:31 -0500:

Did you use all three fluids? They seem all to be very different.
1. The first fluid seems to be a strong solvent, which seems to *melt* the rubber a bit, so that the half-moon scraper can scrape away the surface.
2. The second fluid is the vulcanizing cement. I always thought that vulcanizing required *heat*; but apparently not.
3. The third fluid is the last thing you apply, which, I believe is critical, which is the *sealer* to prevent moisture and air from seeping into the belts.
The first fluid, if I only knew what it was made out of, seems to be an easy fluid to substitute using some strong solvent in the hardware store.
That last fluid, which I think is the most critical, seems to be some sort of "rubberized tar", which, to me, seems the most critical of all the fluids, because you want to seal up all the damage you did with all that scraping away of the inner liner skin.
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On 12/10/2015 1:10 AM, Danny D. wrote:

The first is a cleaner (used to be MEK). You can't get a decent bond until you remove ALL the dirt, wax, oil, crud etc from the surface. Contamination spoils more patches than any other fault.
--
Andrew Muzi
<www.yellowjersey.org/>
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AMuzi wrote, on Thu, 10 Dec 2015 07:51:35 -0600:

Ah, MEK, Methyl-Ethyl Ketones.
This is a great help because that first stripper being MEK makes it 2 out of the 3 tire repair fluids that are easy to come by!
Googling the hardware stores, it looks like MEK is sold as a common paint thinner.
1. HOME DEPOT: Klean-Strip, 32 oz. Methyl Ethyl Ketone (MEK) Solvent Model # QME71, Internet # 100210976, Store SKU # 834408 http://www.homedepot.com/p/Klean-Strip-32-oz-Methyl-Ethyl-Ketone-MEK-Solvent-QME71/100210976
2. LOWES: Jasco Gallon Size Can Fast to Dissolve Methyl Ethyl Ketone (MEK) (128-fl oz) Item #: 622034, Model #: GJME180 3. LOWES: Crown 1-Gallon Fast to Dissolve Methyl Ethyl Ketone Item #: 206493, Model #: CR.MK.M.41
3. MENARDS: Sunnyside Methyl Ethyl Ketone - 1 qt     Model Number: 84732, Menards SKU: 5613803
Am I correct that MEK is our basic paint thinner at any box shop?
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On 12/10/2015 10:08 AM, Danny D. wrote:

Don't overthink this. Find a Tech service truck or similar vendor who does this all day long and get your materials and advice from an expert.
--
Andrew Muzi
<www.yellowjersey.org/>
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AMuzi wrote, on Thu, 10 Dec 2015 10:17:26 -0600:

You have no idea where I live. Nor that I'm retired, so, I never go into town.
I'm in the mountains. We don't even have cable. We don't have sewage pipes. We don't have gas pipes. We all have wells.
There is zero chance I'm gonna run into a 'tech service truck'.
I have to go into town, explicitly, and then *look* for my solvents.
So far, there are three that are useful for tire puncture repair:
1. The stripper (which, if it's MEK, is easy to come by!) 2. The cement (which is very easy to come by) 3. The sealer (which is a tar-like substance of some sort)
Does anyone know what might be a good source of the tarlike substance at the box stores that is similar to the butyl rubber tire sealant they use to seal the inside of the tire after we've buffed it all up during the patching process?
I'll head off to Home Depot today to see if I can find a tar-like chemical that works with butyl rubber - but - as you know - those orange-aproned people, while very nice, won't be able to advise me.
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