Lessons from Sandy

Page 6 of 13  
snipped-for-privacy@aol.com wrote in

Thanks for that last piece of advice - I'd have used a regular romex connector, good to know there is a different one.
I'll be moving (rather, adding) a junction box since the 2 are weird ones and rather inaccessible behind piping from the new furnace.
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Best regards
Han
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wrote:

The gas furnace where I lived in the 60s through 80s needed two things before the full gas would turn on to the burners. They were both accomplished in one valve. First it needed electricity to pull in a coil to supply a small amount of gas to the pilot light. Second an expanding fluid temperature sensor had to detect the pilot light was on and hot. Then the valve opened and supplied the gas.
It did have a manual over ride. There was a red button you could hold down to give the pilot light gas, light it with a match with you other hand, and shoo the cat with your third hand.
It took two or three minutes for the pilot light to get the sensor hot enough to operate the valve. That part was mechanical, not electrical.
Then you were off and running. Sort of. There was no power for the hot air blower and the over temperature detector in the plenum couldn't shut down the furnace when it got too hot.
The furnace was in the cellar and hot air rises, so some heat drifted up to the rooms. It was up to the user to judge when the innards were getting too hot and shut off the gas by rotating the valve.
Fortunately we never lost power for more than some number of hours.

I have no idea. I'll leave that to someone else to answer.
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You were right at the limit of that inverter. Just a heads up.
Gunner
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That's why I didn't really like it, but it worked. 120 Volt 0.76 Amps equals 91.2 Watt, or 2/3 of the inverter's capacity.
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Han
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Not counting start up surge...which can be at least 50% more.
<G>
Gunner
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Apparently, the inverter didn't mind, at least with the car engine running it did not ...
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Han
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Ill bet it wont last very long if it happens again several times. Shrug. Most of those tiny inverters are as I said..useful for small small static loads over a relatively short period of time.
Ive a 400 watt inverter mounted on my Comm rack in my pickup truck and it is used only for small stuff. It struggles with a trouble light. And its a name brand unit. Ive got a 3000 watt Xantrex mounted in the work van, but Ive got two BIG batteries mounted. One for starting, the other for all other needs.
Anybody needs one..Ive got a big..big Heart/Xantrex inveter...6000 watts/7500 surge Id be willing to sell. It came out of a brand new land yhaght that burned partially being delivered to its new owner.
Gunner
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I bought a generator, small one, as detailed in a reply to gfretwell. The inverter might still be used to charge laptops, or just for the laptops when we travel.
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Han
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If you can do it, the best solution is a small wood burning stove and some wood in store. The gas can go off too you know. You can get stoves with a hotplate to cook on. You can always get more wood if the outage turns out to be a long one, getting more petrol/gas might be difficult. That is what I have, along with a five year stock of wood.
Saw all the long queues for petrol on the box over here. Those folks should have bought and stored a bicycle.
These sort of things are going to become more frequent. Their houses will be near worthless now after they have rebuilt them. They could and should flood proof them. I wonder if they have the wit to do it?
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On Mon, 5 Nov 2012 00:30:49 -0800 (PST), harry

Some places..there is no wood. Seriously. Burning 2x4 scraps ..they burn fast fast fast.
So Cal is a perfect example of No Wood. The stop and robs occasionally sell a tiny bundle of manzanita or mountain oak for something like $11 for folks to take to the beach or burn in a fireplace for "accent" when the chicks come over.

Most of those houses that were damaged/destroyed..were built in the 30s-50s..as summer cottages. Boarded up in the winter and only opened in the spring-fall. Living in them year round..was not in the design criteria 50-70 yrs ago.
Gunner
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On 11/5/2012 5:30 AM, Gunner wrote:

Didn't something like Sandy happen back in the 30's which has been forgotten by the majority of the public. I suppose I could research it but I seem to remember the New York City area being torn up by a storm back in the last century. O_o
TDD
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Very possible, the earlier storm. I remember that in the late 1960s, there was a north east black out that crippled NYC for a couple days. I want to say 1967.
Christopher A. Young Learn more about Jesus www.lds.org .
Didn't something like Sandy happen back in the 30's which has been forgotten by the majority of the public. I suppose I could research it but I seem to remember the New York City area being torn up by a storm back in the last century. O_o
TDD
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I'm sure someone can calculate the odds of a storm like Sandy. There are extra high tides twice a month (sun, moon, earth alignment). High tide lasts only a few hours each time. Then you need a storm with sufficient strength and the right location and directionality to push up the water into a funnel like that formed by the Jersey shore and Long Island. Make those fairly unlikely events occur at the same time as happened with Sandy hereabouts, and you found the recipe for disaster.
The same thing happened, resulting in 1,800 or so deaths, on January 31, 1953 in Holland (google "watersnood 1953"). The Dutch then made up their Deltaplan, which was highly successful, though with some ecological hiccups requiring changes in the original plans. They are continuing to fiddle with the systems since sea levels will continue to rise, plus Holland keeps sinking.
A similar approach in the NY area seems unlikely for a variety of reasons, but there was an article in the NY Times this weekend about different approaches to protect more of NY/NJ. Today there is an article about the really bad shape of some buildings that were flooded in lower Manhattan.
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Han
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On 11/5/2012 7:41 AM, Han wrote:

Our family farm is on top of a mountain in Northeast Alabamastan and I don't remember tornadoes ever threatening the farm although its high mountain location does expose the buildings to high winds every now and then and forest fires are easily controlled with fire breaks. I don't remember any huge weather calamity outside of a few ice storms affecting the area for a long time. I survived The Blizzard of 93 that paralyzed Birmingham while those Damn Yankees laughed at us over all the problems we had dealing with a few feet of snow. We have severe thunderstorms and tornadoes but with all the damage those weather events cause, it never seems to put us out of business for very long. I really feel for my cousins in the coastal areas of the country when the ocean decides to visit because it seems to wipe out everything on a much larger scale than even the floods caused by The Mississippi river showing its power to destroy. It looks like the only folks with a really safe home are those who moved into the old missile silos. ^_^
TDD
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On Mon, 05 Nov 2012 10:39:36 -0600, The Daring Dufas

Tuscaloosa was hurt pretty badly a couple of years ago. First the Democrats got sent packing, a couple of months later Auburn won the national championship, then the tornadoes hit.
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On 11/5/2012 6:42 PM, snipped-for-privacy@att.bizzz wrote:

Me and JH did a couple of jobs down in T Town last Summer and we could clearly see the path the tornadoes took as we traveled down the highways in the area. O_o
TDD
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This storm wasn't all that ferocious, but it was HUGE, and collected half the Atlantic to hurl at the NY and NJ shores. It's now been a little over a week and even in this area where we just lost a whole bunch of trees and pretty much wiring, while an occasional home got some damage, the crews still haven't reconnected every home. It's not expected to be finished before the 9th. NYTimes said that some highrises in lower Manhattan will take months. My former colleague at the VA said the hospital is out of business for at least a month. Many (or perhaps all) samples we collected and stored in a -80C freezer are gonzo. Years of work. I could cry, or go at the chief engineer ...
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Han
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On 11/5/2012 8:29 PM, Han wrote:

Heck, it's the sheer size of the storm as you pointed out and the population density which is much greater than here in the Southeast. New York city has a population almost twice the population of my whole state and the Birmingham Metro Area consisting of a number of smaller communities is a bit over a million. It's impossible for folks from here in The Southeast to comprehend the number of people packed into such a small area as New York City. We're used to open spaces here and when a tornado hits it's more likely to tear up unpopulated spaces than to hit densely populated areas. I can't even imagine the number of people in other "bigger" cities of the world and how natural disasters would affect those people. O_o
TDD
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On Mon, 05 Nov 2012 22:00:09 -0600, The Daring Dufas

I see 4 factors. Houses built before a flood or wind code existed, A storm that hit a huge area with a lot of people. A bunch of people who just did not believe it was going to happen to them. About a million trees that should have been trimmed or just cut down.
My only damage in Charley came from a 40 foot mango tree falling on my screen cage.. I rented a crane and 3 Latino gentlemen with chain saws and we did some tree trimming while the hort pickup was free. I filled up an 18 wheeler and a half.
The crane I rented was pretty popular in the neighborhood too. Everything was falling tree damage.
FPL got real aggressive about cleaning out the right of way too.
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snipped-for-privacy@aol.com wrote in wrote:

All correct. PSEG did a bit of tree trimming after Irene and the freak snowstorm, but you can't trim against some things, such as 3 ft diameter oaks toppling over.
They will rebuild on the barrier islands, just like they rebuilt (how many times) Galveston. The Jersey shore as it is called is like a religion for quite a few people, and a huge source of tourist dollars. IMNSHO, they all should be rebuilt on pilings of >10ft, so the sea can flow under in the next big storm, but I'm not sure they'll do that. Most people will forget that Sandy was a warning and a promise of more to come.
The fact that the NY/NJ/CT metro area is sort of densely populated (this to TDD) should not be an excuse for lax rules and regulations regarding buildings and infrastructure. On the contrary. Also, IMNSHO, mandatory evacuation orders should be accompanied by conserving first responders' efforts until it isn't dangerous for them anymore.
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Han
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