LED bulb: 17 Years, $50.00

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<SNIP to this point>

No, the natural gas water heaters in my home, my mother's home, my divorced father's home, my boyfriends's mother's home, and in the home of my only sibling living elsewhere from above, and in my church, all of those water heaters that I know do not use electricity for water heating.

What? Have you not heard of natural gas ovens? Among myself and family and close friends, I know of 5 gas ovens and 1 electric one.

So you are arguing on basis of choosing a TV of a kind that uses more electricity than is used by most chosen by our fellow Americans?
(Or what was your argument here, since what I responded to having to do with TV usage was snipped out?)

Even there, the ROI on investing in energy-efficient lighting is usually impressively good.

That sounds to me like you go to bed to sleep for the night by 9 PM. It does appear to me that an American needing to have only one light in the house to be on and only on for 5 minutes between 9 and 11 PM is even more uncommon than an American household that can halve its electric bill by replacing incandescents with CFLs.

I know of some CFLs that are good for porch lights. The Philips SL/O, or whatever they call them now and maybe now only available from Home Depot in 15 watt wattage, do well. My mother uses those for porch lights, and they usually last more than a year running all night every night and through many days.

--
- Don Klipstein ( snipped-for-privacy@misty.com)

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On Mon, 26 Apr 2010 05:59:12 +0000 (UTC), snipped-for-privacy@manx.misty.com (Don Klipstein) wrote:
<snip repetitive stuff>

Can't you read? We generally watch television (or are online) during that time. No lights required. Plasma and LCD screens put out plenty of light so we don't (often) trip on the cats (they do like to lie in the middle of the floor).

I thought you said you halved your bill with only CFLs.

Nope, the porch lights are cans and the garage lights are decorative, as are all the interior lights with the exception of a two table lamps. No CFLs need apply.
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If I save 10%, that amounts to ten dollars a month. I am not going to bother with CFLs if the hassle means only ten dollars a month.

I should have been clearer: By "all the time", I meant "all the time after it starts to get dark outside". And that I see absolutely everywhere. I walk a lot, and thus have lots of time to observe people's lighting behavior. I'd say that, comparing outside-lighting left on all the time, CFLs outnumber incandescents at /least/ ten-to-one.
--
Tegger

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wrote:

That's fine if you are a completely self-absorbed, greedy, selfish person who cares about no one but himself.
How about doing something simply because it's the right thing to do?
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We're not paying your electric bill, no.

Because it's *NOT* The "right thing to do". Another watermelon patch uncovered.
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The "right thing" in /your/ opinion, or in /my/ opinion?
--
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On Mon, 26 Apr 2010 06:24:30 +0000 (UTC), snipped-for-privacy@manx.misty.com (Don Klipstein) wrote:

Looking around my neighborhood, I see zero CFLs. In my VT neighborhood, quite a green place, there were also zero (for good reason - they wouldn't light until spring).

She'll save even more by turning it off.
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wrote:

<SNIP from here to edit for space>

I figure more like 30 cents per day for my apartment. In most houses, the savings are more.

My N:Vision spirals are most of the way warmed up in 1 minute, and are usually as bright at 2 minutes as they ae at 2 hours. This is according to my Lutron LX-101A light meter. My Philips and Sylvania spirals arrea only slightly slower to me.

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- Don Klipstein ( snipped-for-privacy@misty.com)

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On Wed, 28 Apr 2010 22:44:04 +0000 (UTC), snipped-for-privacy@manx.misty.com (Don Klipstein) wrote:

Your numbers before were $.35 vs. $.30. Even at $.30/day, that's half the cost of an unreadable newspaper; trivial. At that "cost" there is no reason to put up with *ugly*.

The ones I bought certainly weren't. In cold weather they were even worse. The laundry room light (not a CFL) took at least a half hour to come up to brightness. Instead of just using it when we were in there, it stayed on all day. A real savings there.
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<SNIP to here>

I re-estimated hours per week for each lamp since I did not commit that or my previous savings estimate figure to memory.

<SNIP from here>
Except I don't find mine ugly at all. For one thing, CFLs come in a variety of color temperatures. And various brands, wattage ranges, general types, and tubing diameters have trends of slightly more purplish or more greenish color. Because of this, I can get the color that I want.
And the spiral shape does not appear ugly to me. Anyway, the shape of a spiral CFL is not visible in many fixtures. Where the bare spiral tubing is visible, it is usually uncomfortably bright to spend much time looking at anyway.
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- Don Klipstein ( snipped-for-privacy@misty.com)

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On Thu, 29 Apr 2010 01:02:47 +0000 (UTC), snipped-for-privacy@manx.misty.com (Don Klipstein) wrote:

You like looking at harsh, twisty, lights. What can I say?

...and we're supposed to buy them all and throw away the ones we don't like? BTW, I've never seen one I like the light from. I do have several T10s (?) that I use for shop light. Different application, though.

It certainly does in my fixtures. They're intended for unfrosted bulbs. Twisties look like hell.

It would be in every one of mine, other than the cans, where they aren't useable, anyway.

60W incandescents don't have that problem.
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Start with ones in resealable containers and purchased from places with a good return policy. Any unreturnable ones of nonoptimum color can go where color matters less.
Or, try seeing what brands, models, and wattages are already being used successfully somewhere else.
The least greenish (most purplish) one that I can at this moment that is good are Sylvania's 3000K models. Towards the other extreme, among decent ones I have found Philips 2700K spirals of lower wattages to be less- purplish, more-greenish. Among 3500K spirals, I have found Sylvania to be a bit on the purplish side but acceptable. My favorite was Westinghouse "medium white", but that appears to me not easy to find and did not last as long in bathroom duty as other brands. N:Vision appeared to me to have an in-between shade of 3500K, slightly purplish but less so than Sylvania. (Home Depot recently replaced N:Vision with another brand that may be similar.)

They look rather bright to me to look at for long, though I find 40 watt soft whites easy to look at.
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What kind of building? Are we talking apartment buldings with tons of bulbs in the common areas? Do you force your tenants to install CFLs in their units?

When the sun isn't beating down, it's easier for the A/C to keep up without running all the time. I guess this doesn't apply in places like Phoenix in July, but I'm not in such a place.

The dollar amount saved is trivial. Not worth the savings for the trouble. Now if CFLs saved the average homeowner, oh, $300 per month in electricity, the feds wouldn't need to force everybody to use CFLs, and we wouldn't be having this discussion.
--
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On Apr 24, 1:19am, snipped-for-privacy@manx.misty.com (Don Klipstein) wrote:

Building hall ways and my houses. I dont like tenants to use cfls, because they pay electricity and incandesants help lower my heating bill in wInter!
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Her again your logic is absent, the savings is not trivial when you cut your bill 40-60% and who pays 300 a month for general electric use without AC. Im in a 3500 sq ft house with a now 35$ bill ,CFLs inside, out, and house and tree lighting. wake up and get with reality. Go to HD and price and buy a few packs of soft white " green colored packs" of cfls and stop paying that utility co an arm and a leg every year.
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If CFLs were truly that much of an improvement over incandescents, it would have been unnecessary for lobbyists all over the First World to talk government employees into forcing the peple into using them.
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By from a place with a good warranty and known brand, HD. I have in 4 locations run over 100 HD cfls that rarely fail early, my percent early fail rate is 2%, so I save then return them in bulk to HD .
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imited.usenetmonster.com:

View it this way. Incandesants are Electric Heaters, that as a by product out put light. In the visable spectrum you only see about 4-6% of the energy used as visable light, the rest is heat output in an incandesant. So take 11, 100w incandesants and its equal to running a 1000w electric resistance heater. In winter its not so bad, in summer its an extra 1000w you will need to run you AC longer to remove that 1000w of extra heat. Now consider the fact electricity is at least 50% more than NG per BTU, and you see the wasted energy. Incandesants output 10-15 LPW, CFls 60-75 LPW, LED 80-100 LPW [ In a spot beam] so ratings can be skewed to be deceptive. CFLs are winners hands down.
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