snipped-for-privacy@manx.misty.com (Don Klipstein) wrote in news: snipped-for-privacy@manx.misty.com:
And you can safely put the very same incandescent
1) over your stove 2) by your bed 3) on the porch 4) upside down 5) in the kids' rooms...And you know the light emitted is always going to look "right" no matter low little you paid for that incandescent.
I am happy to leave CFLs on the store shelf for others to buy.
As it turns out, I am happy to:
- Don Klipstein ( snipped-for-privacy@misty.com)
We bought some LOA LED bulbs at Sam's -- two different kinds: the one kind all seem to be doing OK still, while the one PAR38 one has just lost one-fourth of its LEDs. They are supposed to have a 3-yr warranty; I'll have to check how much we paid and see if it's worth the shipping cost to send it back for a replacement
We also bought some LOA PAR30 bulbs at Costco. Just after one of them lost half of its LEDs, we got a letter from Costco inviting us to return them all for a full refund, as they had been found not to last as long as advertised. We took Costco up on the offer.
Perhaps Sam's, Costco and Ace all got what seemed to them like good deals on items that had in fact been discontinued.
The only LED bubs I see anywhere now are much more expensive and have much lower light outputs.
Perce
isty.com:
And you are so blissfully happy paying 75% more for electricity for a apliance that outputs near 95% of its energy consumed as heat. Run 11
-100 w incandesants and be happy knowing you AC this summer has to remove that extra 1000w of heat CR and Popular Mechanics Mag did reviews and dont agree with your happiness on color rendition of life expectancy. With HDs 9 yr warranty my HD soft whites will be free forever , be happy, stay ignorant.
ransley wrote in news: snipped-for-privacy@b33g2000yqc.googlegroups.com:
Yep. Because in actual dollar terms, that 75% is a trivial amount of money.
Most of our incandescents are 40 and 60 watt. We do have a couple of Tri-lites that go up to 150, but they're normally on at the 100W setting.
Well, that's part of the point. Generally speaking, when I need my bulbs, the A/C is off. When I need my A/C, the bulbs are off.
Moreover, in the winter, when the need for the bulbs is greatest, the heat from the bulbs reduces the need for the furnace, so my gas bill is lower.
And we follow the ancient (and apparently forgotten) precept of turning the lights off when we leave a room, so there are few bulbs left on regularly. With incandescents, I can do that. Snap, it's on. Snap, it's off. No waiting.
I see threads in this groups with comaplints about color unless you buy /just/ the right kind of bulb. And being in people's homes with CFLs, I have to disagree with CR. Also, CR is hard left-wing and as religiously "green" as they come, so their judgements are unlikely to be bias-free.
Except that you had to pay ten times the cost of incandescents to get that 9-year warranty...
snipped-for-privacy@b33g2000yqc.googlegroups.com:
Almost all of ours are 60W, though there are 4-12 per fixture. ;-)
Our heat pumps will "run" seven or eight months a year... When in use they don't often get shut down at night (though the thermostat will cycle).
Yep.
Perzactly! The average bulb in our house is likely on for 2 minutes per day with only the bathroom lights on for anything close to an hour per day. CFLs really suck in our application; won't have them.
Yep. I don't like any CFLs I've seen. They're ugly in expensive light fixtures, as well. No thanks.
;-)
snipped-for-privacy@b33g2000yqc.googlegroups.com:
.45c a bulb, 1.85 a four pack for HD CFLs, you need to do some learnin.
snipped-for-privacy@b33g2000yqc.googlegroups.com:
Every building ive covnverted to cfls the electric bill dropped
50-60%, I guess you have money to burn because I know of no one who would not love a 50% reduction. The heat is generated, you put it in, whether or not the bulb is off, but who only runs the AC when no lights are on, kinda like torchure isnt it! I bet you never did a cost comparison of BTUs from Ng to electric because for most all the US electric is easily now double the cost of gas, you never thought why electric furnaces and boilers dont sell in your area did you. And at 1.85 for a 4 pack of cfls, well you just again prove you dont know any facts you speak of.
- snipped-for-privacy@b33g2000yqc.googlegroups.com:
For cheap crap that looks like hell, will *not* last 9 years (and the company won't anyway), and is a fire trap, perhaps. You need to
*think*.
snipped-for-privacy@b33g2000yqc.googlegroups.com:
Cool! They save money on my heat pump, water heater, and oven, too! Hows that work?
IOW, you're a liar.
I repeat, you need to learn to *think*.
keith wrote in news: snipped-for-privacy@u34g2000yqu.googlegroups.com:
Incandescents used to be 30¢ a bulb until the recent legislative attacks.
And you ain't gonna get no pretty light out of the bargain-basement CFLs, that's for sure.
ransley wrote in news: snipped-for-privacy@b33g2000yqc.googlegroups.com:
What kind of building? Are we talking apartment buldings with tons of bulbs in the common areas? Do you force your tenants to install CFLs in their units?
When the sun isn't beating down, it's easier for the A/C to keep up without running all the time. I guess this doesn't apply in places like Phoenix in July, but I'm not in such a place.
The dollar amount saved is trivial. Not worth the savings for the trouble. Now if CFLs saved the average homeowner, oh, $300 per month in electricity, the feds wouldn't need to force everybody to use CFLs, and we wouldn't be having this discussion.
Assuming you get any light AT ALL after a couple months.
It costs about half as much to heat a home with a heat pump as it does with resistive heating. And in most areas, it costs less to heat a home with gas or oil than it does with resistive heating.
What? No need for lighting for long outside a bathroom in a house in a location that needs heat 7-8 months out of the year?
- Don Klipstein ( snipped-for-privacy@misty.com)
My experience other than dollar store stool specimens and Lights of America and using CFLs in bad places such as motion sensor lights is an impressively high rate of achieving average life expectancy of 4,000-plus hours.
(Though not all take recessed ceiling fixtures and small enclosed fixtures well, and that gets worse as wattage increases, especially past
23 watts.)And they have been improving. If I had to buy one tomorrow, I would expect 5,000 maybe 6,000 hours real-world average-home-use life expectancy excluding what I mentioned as not-so-good CFLs and not-so-good places/ways to use CFLs.
I have even gotten good results with cheaper brands sold by Home Depot, with my main complaint being that some of the N:Vision ones they sold a few years ago audibly buzz, though not loudly.
CFLs tend to be better if they have the Energy Star logo or if they are of one of the "Big 3" brands (GE, Philips or Sylvania), especially if both.
- Don Klipstein ( snipped-for-privacy@misty.com)
CFLs replacing incandescents save on net energy costs, even when heat pumps, water heaters, and ovens are included.
Heat pumps deliver around twice as much heating from a given amount of electricity consumption as resistive heaters do, since about half the heat that heat pumps put out is pumped in from outside rather than heat from converting electrical energy to heat energy.
Since incandescent household lighting has very little of its heat heating the water in water heaters or the contents of ovens, I am prone to take a dim view of those advocating incandescents over CFL on the heat of incandescent home lighting being good for water heaters and ovens.
As if CFL advocates don't in light of the above?
- Don Klipstein ( snipped-for-privacy@misty.com)
My experience is that landlords do not force tenants to use CFLs in place of incandescents. It appears to me that one reason is that the energy savings from tenant use of CFLs is in tenant's electric bill for lighting and tenant's electric bill for air conditioning. To a smaller extent, tenant use of CFLs in place of incandescents increases the landlord's heating bill.
I suspect that is a significant reason why my landlord filled my included-in-apartment light fixtures with incandescents that are rated to last 5,000 hours at 130V.
While the landlord used a fair amount of CFL usage for hallway lights that are run on the landlord's dime.
As if savings are trivial if they are less than triple what I pay for car insurance or less than 40% of what I pay to rent a larger 1-bedroom apartment with free off-street parking and located within walking distance of a major public transit terminal?
- Don Klipstein ( snipped-for-privacy@misty.com)
Building hall ways and my houses. I dont like tenants to use cfls, because they pay electricity and incandesants help lower my heating bill in wInter!
snipped-for-privacy@b33g2000yqc.googlegroups.com:
Her again your logic is absent, the savings is not trivial when you cut your bill 40-60% and who pays 300 a month for general electric use without AC. Im in a 3500 sq ft house with a now 35$ bill ,CFLs inside, out, and house and tree lighting. wake up and get with reality. Go to HD and price and buy a few packs of soft white " green colored packs" of cfls and stop paying that utility co an arm and a leg every year.
snipped-for-privacy@u34g2000yqu.googlegroups.com:
Here again your logic is absent, you are clueless. HD CFLs and most others now replicate incandesants on color rendition. There is a 2-3 yr old review comparison at Popular Mechanics magazine that rated HD soft white BETTER than incandesants at color rendition in some situations. Cfls coatings have come along way over the last few years, technology moves on if you havnt heard. That pop machanics review is hard to find, but its there, read it. CR also did a review comparison test, it will all suprise you. At HD you have a 30 day no questions asked return policy, buy and try em. Keep a reciept and its a 9 yr warranty so you can perpetualy always have cfls.
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