Help me before I commit a crime!

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snipped-for-privacy@boundvortex.com wrote:

Would've made a lot more sense to find out why the dogs were barking, and eliminate the cause...
For the barking to tick off the neighbors, it would seem the dogs were outdoors. If they were barking because he left them outdoors 24x7, then the correct solution to the problem would have been to give the dogs away to a responsible owner who would care for them properly.
--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)
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wrote:

The solutions you suggest require a judge with some sense. That's very rare. In addition, the judge may be a dog owner, which means he/she should recuse him/herself from the case. That almost never happens except with high-visibility legal proceedings.
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<<Would've made a lot more sense to find out why the dogs were barking, and eliminate the cause... For the barking to tick off the neighbors, it would seem the dogs were outdoors>>
I believe they were being left in a screened porch. They seemed to think the dogs competed with each other. The neighbors were elderly and home all day, which made them more sensitive to the noise issue.
Out of curiosity, I looked up in a number of dog training books what the proper solution was for barking, but none of the authors seemed to have a sure fire cure. As I recall, the typical explanation was insecurity and the only solution was to make the dogs more secure. Punishing them was not generally effective.
My sister-in-law grew up with the same breed of dog and never had this problem; they'd had an earlier dog that wasn't a barker. These dogs also had the problem of urinating on the floor when they got excited, such as when you petted them. My brother hated these dogs.
Did the family cause the problem somehow? I don't know. I'm generally inclined to think bad dogs have bad families, but I'm also open to the idea that even the best environment can't *always* overcome genetics.
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snipped-for-privacy@boundvortex.com wrote:

Then they should have been given away to a responsible owner who knows how to care for dogs properly.

Not relevant. Confining dogs all day in a small area is not proper care, and responsible dog owners don't do that.

Not relevant. If the dogs were being cared for properly, there would not have been a "noise issue".

Well, DUH! Dogs bark for many reasons. The idea that there is one "sure fire cure" for a behavior with multiple causes is insanity.
Dogs bark to chase away intruders. They bark to warn their humans of dangers such as fire (or intruders). They bark when they're bored. They bark when they're excited. They bark when they're fearful. They bark when they're happy and want to play. They bark when they're pissed off. They bark when they're startled. And so forth.

That's one cause, and one solution.

It rarely is.

I bet she didn't confine them to a screened porch all day long, either.

There are ways of training dogs to eliminate almost any undesired behavior.

Yes.
Yes.
It certainly can mitigate genetics to a great extent.
--
Regards,
Doug Miller (alphageek at milmac dot com)
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On Tue, 26 Dec 2006 21:55:09 GMT, snipped-for-privacy@milmac.com (Doug Miller) wrote:

They stop barking when they are dead. See! There is one cure for all of the causes.
CWM
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Steve B wrote:

[...]
Many people consider their pets to be members of the family. When something harms a member of their family, they are compelled to retaliate in kind ("an eye for an eye... vengence is MINE!")
Which member of YOUR family are you willing to sacrifice?
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Huh? Enough nog for you!
I didn't do anything to harm the animal.
I would not blame the dog, though, if, when the owner returns, the dog does a real number on his face and genitals. And I don't mean #1 or #2, but a nice sixty second mauling.
Like those chimps did to that guy.
Steve
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wrote:

"affinity". I was expelled from school once; for ten days. I spun a teacher around an I-beam by his neck tie for kicking my dog.

None .. dogs or cats.
-- Oren
"Well, it doesn't happen all the time, but when it happens, it happens constantly."
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Do you leave members of your family tied up in the yard without food for a week at a time in freezing weather?
CWM
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Charlie Morgan wrote:

Well, yeah, if they deserve it. Doesn't everybody?
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Steve you certainly have a lot of time to spend on this board. It seems to me that your subsequent messages reveal you as a sick, hateful and malicious person who is just looking for an excuse to torture restrained and helpless animals. What a coward!

Being the coward that you are, you fantasize about undercover and secret ways of injuring others to make yourself feel whole. Like using this board anonymously to inflict pain on others. You've had a long history of problems with dogs, and with people too. No doubt the neighbors will throw a party when you move.
Show your written ravings to the animal control officers and to the local police so that they can help you. (Your writings shown below.)
Society would best be served if you were in a prison psychiatric ward for the rest of your worthless and miserable life.
Steve B wrote: I have sent for a very large ultrasonic generator. It is used in tandem with three others, and in harmony, they will cause people to have a headache for a week . . . I can't wait to hit the switch on this baby. It is noiseless, and is mobile. I can drive around the whole neighborhood and nail each loudmouth dog with a good jolt of its own medicine.
Steve B wrote: I have witnessed caning in foreign countries . . . I believe it would be a good punishment in the US for certain things, like bonehead pet owners, graffiti sprayers, etc.
Steve B wrote: I had a problem with the neighborhood dogs. Rigged up a metal can and let them baptize it for a week. Hooked up the Fi-Shock, and now most of the dogs won't even walk on my side of the street. Hey, it's clearly on MY property.
Steve B wrote: I have ordered a ultrasonic generator from the LRAD units . . . Next time I hear these bonehead dogs wailing, I'll give them something to really wail about. We are in the process of moving to Southern Utah. I've had it with Las Vegas . . . the place has gone to the dogs. Or, in current lingo ........... a los perros. I'm sure that anyone who would leave their dog out for a week in wintertime with no shelter must be some kind of nut, and it's been a long time since I've had to shoot anyone.
Steve B wrote: I'll go you one better. Buy the best KillAll herbicide you can find. Put it in a spray pump can FULL STRENGTH. Go put on your blue Dickies pants and shirt with a white cap. Add false mustache and silver grasshopper eyes twenty something shades. Walk up to target's nice manicured yard, as any good pest control person would do. Write what you want in their lawn, but pausing to appear to squirt pesticide here and there. It leaves a lasting impression. In some cases, up to a year.
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Steve -
Shoot the damned dog, and leave the head on Marybeth's front step.
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The police already know how frustrated the public is with animal control. Recently, I had problems with a neighbor whose dog was actually digging holes in my vegetable garden. I began by asking him politely to keep his dog on his property. Then, it escalated to the animal control department, which did nothing after a dozen phonecalls. I even e-mailed them pictures of the dog IN MY GARDEN. I finally walked over to his house and informed him, in front of his family, that the next time I had the opportunity, the dog would be killed. It is *legal* to do this in New York, if an animal is destroying food crops, which this animal was.
By the way, the dog criminal's excuse was one I'd heard plenty of times from other idiots: "Gee....it just gets out of the yard somehow. I can't figure it out." Bullshit.
An hour later, a cop showed up at my door. The dog criminal had told them I'd threatened to kill him. I explained to the cop that this was ridiculous, and that I'd promised to kill the dog. I also showed him a copy of NY's game laws, which he was familiar with. He reminded me that in my neighborhood, it was illegal to discharge firearms. I told him I was aware of the safety issue, and would not need any sort of firearms. He said "Let me see what I can do. Will you be here for a while?" He came back a little later and said there wouldn't be any further problems.
Whatever he said to them it solved the problem.
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marybeth wrote:
SNIPPED DRIVEL
How perfectly Stalinist Marybeth is. You do't agree with her, so you must be shipped to an insane aslm for he rest of your life.
What a hoot.
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On Wed, 27 Dec 2006 09:05:07 -0800, jJim McLaughlin

THE "TWO-COW EXPLANATION" OF WHAT MAKES...
A COMMUNIST: You have two cows. The government seizes both and provides you with milk.
A FASCIST: You have two cows. The government seizes both and sells you the milk. You join the underground and start a campaign of sabotage.
-- Oren
"Well, it doesn't happen all the time, but when it happens, it happens constantly."
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wrote:

You've never been confronted by a rabid dog or even shot one ( it is very humane) . You never shot a deadly snake; after it posed to strike, while being 10 miles in a swamp. You never have been in a position to defend yourself by force. If you've done these things, it does not warrant a nut house.
I use gun oil for cologne. If you put a dab hind your ears I might be attracted to you.
-- Oren
"Well, it doesn't happen all the time, but when it happens, it happens constantly."
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Steve B wrote:

OK, Steve, first you need to ascertain if the neighbors have someone coming in to care for the dogs while they're out of town. Leave a note on the door(s) saying you'd like to talk with that person, and see if they'll call you or leave a number for you to call. Explain the barking, ask when the neighbors will be back, and explain the noise needs to be dealt with. NOW.
If you don't get a response, either the people taking care of the dogs are rude and uncaring, or the dogs have been left on their own. I doubt the latter, as no one wants to come home from a trip and find dog excrement all over their house...I don't care if they did use puppy pads, after two days those suckers have to be replaced.
So someone has to be visiting the house regularly, and they need to know there's a problem, and they need to fix it. They can leave a radio on in the house on a station that might calm the dogs (in other words, no partisan talk radio!), or hopefully do something that will, if not stop it completely, at least lessen it enough that you can sleep.
It's not up to you to stop the dogs from barking, but it is up to you to make sure those taking care of the dogs deal with it.
Unfortunately, you may be out of luck this time, but DEFINITELY talk with your neighbors when they return and let them know there was a problem with their dogs while they were gone and that you certainly hope they will take steps to make sure it doesn't happen again.
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BTW, Steve, you don't mention if these dogs are OUTSIDE or INSIDE. I have a couple ideas for you if their OUTSIDE and next door? ( perfectly harmless and legal but works great for roaming stray cats also.
Steve B wrote:

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