I have replaced my doorbell button five times in a year. It is a wired one, but the light keeps going out. It has a diode in it. The Westminster chimes sound great.
The third time the light went out, I hired an electrician, and it still would not light two months later.
The electrician told me to get a doorbell without the little wire inside the doorbell, called a diode.
Can someone please educate me. From what I am finding out, all wired doorbells must have a diode or else the doorbell won't chime.
If I really don't need a diode, for a wired doorbell, can someone tell me that brand and model number of the unit? I am not interested in a battery operated unit, but surely, there must be a doorbell button out there that just keeps on working.
This cannot be rocket science. The electrician I had moved, so I need to start all over again.
I think your doorbell transformer output voltage is too high. Measure the output voltage. It should be near 24V AC typical. If it is noticeably higher you need to replace it or take a measure to drop the voltage using voltage drop resistor calculated per Ohm's law and consider using LED. Was it working good and suddenly it is burning bulbs? Or see if you can find higher voltage rated lamp like 32V.
Door bell operates at 10V, 16V(typical) or even 24V AC. Did you replace a chime or button? Look at the tranformer voltage rating and voltage required for the chime. Are they different? There is even a transformer with tri-voltage output. My guess is you have mismatched doorbell system. Ours are 5 notes playing Westminster chime by a rotary gong running on 24V AC. I never replaced bulb in years.
I have replaced my doorbell button five times in a year. It is a wired one, but the light keeps going out. It has a diode in it. The Westminster chimes sound great.
The third time the light went out, I hired an electrician, and it still would not light two months later.
The electrician told me to get a doorbell without the little wire inside the doorbell, called a diode.
Can someone please educate me. From what I am finding out, all wired doorbells must have a diode or else the doorbell won't chime.
If I really don't need a diode, for a wired doorbell, can someone tell me that brand and model number of the unit? I am not interested in a battery operated unit, but surely, there must be a doorbell button out there that just keeps on working.
This cannot be rocket science. The electrician I had moved, so I need to start all over again.
Many thanks!
Karee
I have replace more then on push button but I never came across door push button with diode in inside, if there is diode it would be inside bell enclosure itself.
You likely have the wrong transformer - providing too much voltage to the lighted button. Measure the voltage - should be 12-16 volts - you likely have a 24 volt transformer (made for thermostat/furnace control instead of doorbell)
It depends on the functionality provided by the diode.
A diode *shunting* the button allows (some) power to flow through the button even when it is not pressed (assuming typical AC drive for the doorbell circuit).
A simple 1 or 2 tone "bell" only needs -- and receives! -- power while the button is pressed. The button completes the circuit to the bell WHILE the button is pressed. As soon as the button is released, the circuit is broken.
For a 1 tone bell, the chime/buzzer sounds while the button is pressed.
For a 2 tone bell (ding.... DONG), the first tone is the result of a solenoid pulling a striker to hit the first (DING) chime. The second tone is a result of the striker being released and returning, via a spring driven mechanism (to strike the DONG on the "back end" of the striker).
For more complex mechanisms (and some electronic doorbells), power needs to continue to flow through the button even AFTER it has been released -- the bell mechanism can't "store" the electricity that it needs. The diode allows "half" of the electricity to flow all the time. This is enough for the mechanism to CONTINUE operating.
The mechanism won't *start* its cycle/operation until it "sees" the "full" electricity (which is only present when the diode is SHORTED by the switch -- thereby allowing ALL the electricity to flow to the bell mechanism).
The position of the bell mechanism, electrically, only allows it to get power when the button is closed (or, bridged by that diode). You have to route the wiring differently if you want power to come to the bell unit all the time -- feeding the switch FROM the bell unit (instead of feeding them in series with each other).
So, a diode in the bell unit in a traditionally wired circuit can only *discard* half of the electricity presented to it. If the (non-diode) button is "open" (not pressed), then there is no electricity to discard; no electricity to operate!
Assuming he is competent, then he's determined that the chime unit requires the diode to allow power to continue to flow into the unit AFTER you have released the button.
The bulb doesn't care about whether or not the button is pressed or not. It also doesn't care about the diode or the chime unit.
Sort of.
The bulb has to be sized (electrically) so that the power that it draws from the circuit isn't high enough to let the chime unit think the button is being pressed (when it isn't). A button that requires lots of power effectively looks like a short circuit... ACROSS the button (so, the button appears pressed).
The bulb DOES care about the open circuit voltage across the button. This will be determined by the characteristics of your chime unit (those will be printed ON the chime unit!) and the transformer chosen to drive the circuit.
The diode subtly changes what the bulb "sees".
Your transformer delivers AC (Alternating Current) to the circuit. (batteries are Direct Current) Think of these as waves on the ocean -- they have peaks and troughs. But, the *average* "water level" of the ocean is somewhere between (halfway!) the peaks and the troughs.
The bulb (switch) "sees" the range from peak to trough all the time -- while the button is not pressed. The size of these peaks/troughs -- the range between them -- is set by the transformer. E.g., a 24 volt transformer has a range between peaks and troughs that is twice what the range would be for a 12 volt transformer.
The diode alters this. It lets ONLY the peaks go through it. So, the peaks BYPASS the light -- taking a shortcut through the diode! Instead, the light bulb only "sees" the troughs. As the troughs are just as LOW as the peaks are HIGH, this means the light "sees" half of the "voltage" that the transformer produces.
View this sideways:
Normal electricity from transformer: / ( \ \ ) / / ( \ \ ) /
Electricity that takes a shortcut through the diode: | | \ ) / | | | \ ) / |
Electricity that the lightbulb "sees": / ( \ | | | / ( \ | | |
Bad illustration, but hopefully, you can see that the difference between the leftmost (trough) and rightmost (peak) seen by the light is LESS than the difference between the trough and peak delivered by the transformer.
WITHOUT THE DIODE, the light sees what the transformer delivers. So, it operates at a higher voltage. If not designed for that, it burns out faster.
Also, if the diode fails ("open"), a bulb ends up seeing twice the normal voltage that it would have with the diode functioning properly. (diodes have ratings just like every other component)
See my response elsewhere this thread for a rough explanation. Illustrations would be great, here, but too tedious to upload to a hosting site, etc. (sorry)
Again, the *button* appears to be working -- but not the light (which, presumably, is only illuminated when the button is NOT being pressed?)
It's relatively easy to create a modification to an existing button to "fix" this problem. I've installed LEDs in the illuminated "doorbell" buttons for the garage door opener (one inside the house, the other inside the garage). They'll be there until long after the opener gives up the ghost! :-/
She said: "Can someone please educate me. From what I am finding out, all wired doorbells must have a diode or else the doorbell won't chime." Perhaps Bob Bozo Twit can "educate her" less verbosely? Education requires explanation. Clearly, the PAID, PROFESSIONAL electrician did not provide an "education" -- might not even understand *why* the diode is there!
[Hint: *design* an electronic doorbell and you may learn a few practical things!]
While she may not appreciate the details, I've offered a logical reason that explains why a bulb can fail without a diode or when a diode fails (leading to the bulb later "seeing" the full potential of the XFMR).
Goal is to learn something EVERY day! "Settling" for someone else's conclusions leaves you eating *a* fish but never knowing how to catch the next one!
It depends on the functionality provided by the diode.
A diode *shunting* the button allows (some) power to flow through the button even when it is not pressed (assuming typical AC drive for the doorbell circuit).
I need some explanation, you are saying that chimes/bells have constant power at all times through diode when button is not press and full power when button is press, I would love to see that I am not saying that is not possible but I would like to see that.
A simple 1 or 2 tone "bell" only needs -- and receives! -- power while the button is pressed. The button completes the circuit to the bell WHILE the button is pressed. As soon as the button is released, the circuit is broken.
For a 1 tone bell, the chime/buzzer sounds while the button is pressed.
For a 2 tone bell (ding.... DONG), the first tone is the result of a solenoid pulling a striker to hit the first (DING) chime. The second tone is a result of the striker being released and returning, via a spring driven mechanism (to strike the DONG on the "back end" of the striker).
For more complex mechanisms (and some electronic doorbells), power needs to continue to flow through the button even AFTER it has been released -- the bell mechanism can't "store" the electricity that it needs. The diode allows "half" of the electricity to flow all the time. This is enough for the mechanism to CONTINUE operating.
The mechanism won't *start* its cycle/operation until it "sees" the "full" electricity (which is only present when the diode is SHORTED by the switch -- thereby allowing ALL the electricity to flow to the bell mechanism).
The position of the bell mechanism, electrically, only allows it to get power when the button is closed (or, bridged by that diode). You have to route the wiring differently if you want power to come to the bell unit all the time -- feeding the switch FROM the bell unit (instead of feeding them in series with each other).
So, a diode in the bell unit in a traditionally wired circuit can only *discard* half of the electricity presented to it. If the (non-diode) button is "open" (not pressed), then there is no electricity to discard; no electricity to operate!
You are an arrogant and offensive person...kind of a cross between Trader and Micky (sub the Mormon also). Using too many words and way too much narrative. I don't read 80% of your lather for fear of nodding off.
Exactly. I tried to illustrate why this can be required with the buzzer/ding-dong examples. I'll rewrite them using LIGHTBULBS!
A traditional doorbell (1 or 2 tone) is like a lightbulb in place of the doorbell (annunciator): WHILE the button is pressed, the bulb is illuminated. When you release the button, the bulb is *cold*.
Now, imagine you wanted that light to blink for 5 seconds when the button is pressed. You can't count on the visitor to HOLD the button pressed for a full 5 seconds. As soon as he releases the button, the electric circuit is broken. The light goes out.
You *could* try to "capture" enough electricity while the button is BEING pressed and then use that STORED energy after it is released to finish the task at hand. E.g., imagine you could INSTANTLY charge up a small battery (*in* the annunicator -- "lightbulb", in this example) when the button is pressed. Then, run your circuit off that battery to "finish the job".
This would allow the visitor to release the button WITHOUT cutting off power to your circuit -- because you've already HORDED the power that you WILL NEED and stored it in that battery. Size the battery large enough to store enough energy to run your "mechanism" for one "cycle" ("tune").
[Capacitors are devices that are used to temporarily store energy in this form. They don't need to be replaced like batteries -- that wear out in relatively short order. But, storing a LOT of energy in a capacitor requires a physically large, expensive capacitor -- especially if you are powering an electromechanically driven mechanism!]
If, instead, you design your mechanism so that it can operate with "half the power", then the diode ensures this "half power" is ALWAYS AVAILABLE to the mechanism. Before and AFTER the button is pressed! All that remains is to determine when FULL power is available -- as that would only happen when the button was BEING pressed. This can then act as a trigger to *start* the mechanism knowing full well that you will be able to continue/finish regardless of whether or not the button remains pressed (because you've designed the mechanism to run properly on "half power")
[Apologies to the /Technologencia/ for the stilted analogies]
The diode approach also works well for "bells" that need power 24/7/365 -- even when you have NO visitors! E.g., I designed an electronic doorbell ~30 years ago that played a "song" based on the current *date* -- Jingle Bells, Birthdays, Auld Lang Syne, etc. As such, it needed power to keep track of the current time/date -- without requiring the user to change batteries every year, etc.
[30 years ago, it was a lot harder to design things that would run "forever" on very small batteries. No lithium ion stuff back then; no ultralow power processors; etc.]
My questions to the OP regarding whether or not the bell still CONTINUES to work (with blown light) were intended to determine if a diode in the button had *failed* (open). If that was the case, the mechanism might *start* (when the button is pressed -- cuz it still would see "full power"), but would abruptly end when the button was released (because that "half power" is no longer flowing through the BLOWN diode to keep the mechanism running to the end of its cycle/tune)
As the diode is always passing current to the mechanism, it could be undersized and eventually "open" like a blown fuse. In this case, the full potential (see my "waves" analogy elsewhere this thread) of the transformer now appears across the bulb. If the bulb had been selected (by the button manufacturer) to expect *half* that voltage, then it is suddenly being overdriven and it, too, turns into a fuse. :>
Satisfied?
[Sorry, this is REALLY hard to explain without illustrations; hence the verbiage.]
You shouldnt' have to get a new doorbell, ever, but certainly not when it's a fancy one like yours.
Did it ever work right? 5 buttons in a year, but what about before then? If it was new 18 months ago, and even if it wasn't, you could call the manufacturer. A) they should know the problem and the solution, B) if it does require replacing the bell and the problem started within the warranty period, they may well replace the bell. Some places will even go beyond a warranty period if they know it's their product that failed.
OTOH, if your transformer is bigger than it was supposed to be, that would not be the bell company's fault. Again, how long did the bell work right.
My house came with a normal chime and a normal transformer. I think I put in a lighted button. Then I couldn't hear the bell when I was in the basement so I added a clapper bell in parallel in the basement. Then I found a nicer bell on sale and put that in the hall and the old one in the basement. Then the transformer wasn't strong enough to ring both of them, so I bought a bigger xformer, probably higher voltage.
Everything was fine for years until someone told me that everytime I got a package, my burglar alarm went off. Apparently this had been happening for years, and I figured out my glass/wood breakage detectors were tripping because the doorbell was too loud (The delivery man used to ring the bell then, or more likely the mailman.)
Rather than lower the sensitivity of the glass detector, I lowered the voltage of the transformer by inserting a resistor in series with the bell. This might be too much for you, because I have a variable resistor whose knob I can turn until I get it working right, and then a collection of various sizes of resistor I could find one that was the same size as the variable one was when it worked.
Still, if you had even one or two resistors, you might well get lucky. YOu can use little jumper wires, with alligator clips on each end, to put a resistor in temporarily.
I lay my head down to look at these and I fell asleep. I feel rested now. Very good explanation.
Well I don't know if any have one in the bell, but probably only fancy ones like yours that play more than 2 notes.
Call the manufacturer. First look on their website. If you dont' know who made it, call any manufacturer and bluff your way. It won't hurt them to spend 3 or 4 minutes on you. After all, all doorbell makers are brothers.
Don this is automatic setup Win-7 live I have no Idea how to=20 make any changes but I will look for it.
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T>> >>> I have replace more then on push button but I never came across door = push
Exactly. I tried to illustrate why this can be required with the buzzer/ding-dong examples. I'll rewrite them using LIGHTBULBS!
A traditional doorbell (1 or 2 tone) is like a lightbulb in place of the doorbell (annunciator): WHILE the button is pressed, the bulb is illuminated. When you release the button, the bulb is *cold*.
Now, imagine you wanted that light to blink for 5 seconds when the button is pressed. You can't count on the visitor to HOLD the button pressed for a full 5 seconds. As soon as he releases the button, the electric circuit is broken. The light goes out.
You *could* try to "capture" enough electricity while the button is BEING pressed and then use that STORED energy after it is released to finish the task at hand. E.g., imagine you could INSTANTLY charge up a small battery (*in* the annunicator
First we need to know if this all started when Kate put in a new door chime, and maybe a new transformer, or is this just a new pro blem with an old door chime and old power transformer?
The light pulls current through the bell (annunciator) at all times (much like the diode). So, anything that expects the current to drop to some level below that "lamp current" can fail (i.e., the "mechanism" may never "reset" completely to be ready for the next actuation).
There are all sorts of ways you can confuse a doorbell (annunciator). E.g., you can arrange for current to flow in one way, the other way, both ways, in varying amounts, etc. The challenge to the doorbell (annunciator -- we tend to use the term "doorbell" to refer to the actual *button* AND the *bell*) designer is to anticipate how the home will be wired and make accommodations.
E.g., what if there are TWO buttons driving the single bell (in parallel)? Then, a "diode" button installed "upside down" on one button will effectively let the bell "see" the "full power" (one diode lets the "peaks" through, the other lets the *troughs* through -- bell sees peaks and troughs and thinks someone is pushing *THE* button)
It's a delightfully simple circuit: power -- switch -- bell -- back to power yet can be bastardized in countless ways! And, you don't want the homeowner to have to make changes -- just *mount* the bell, ideally (and touch up any paint around it)
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