Do I have metal in my eye?

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wrote:

No disrespect intended here but some of your stories are scaring me. I dread the day I get really sick due to old age. I got some experience going thru the medical system when my mother was old and dread going thru that experience again for myself.
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On 02-14-2013 16:58, micky wrote:

Probably not valium. I had valium for a dental appointment with little effect. But for a root canal, I had something else and I have no memory of getting into the chair nor anything else till I woke up on my own couch eight hours later.
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wrote:

I used to do that during coffee breaks at the summer job I had after my second year in college. The other guys played a game with coke bottles, witha 25 cent pool and the winner being the guy whose coke bottle was made the farthest from Indianapolis.
I got tired of that, so I just sat at my desk and daydreamed. But when the coffee break was over, I couldn't wake up. I'd be groggy and semi-awake for 15 more minutes. I'm surprised I wasn't fired.
I mentioned this to my GP and that started a second round of finding a doctor for epilepsy. ("Do you want to get to the bottom of this? Do you really want to get to the bottom of this" the GP said.) He referred me to an MD in Chciago who he said "invented the EEG". He was so busy that even his secretary had no time to talk to my mother. My mother had to write her letters instead.
But thanks to Wikipedia, I can confirm finally that maybe he didn't invent it, but he did help develop the early machines, and that he was head of the Epilepsy Clinic at the U. of Illiinois. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Frederic_A._Gibbs
He allowed me to get only 3 hours sleep the night before the appointment so that I would sleep durrng the EEG. I still remember his words afterwards. "You don't have epilepsy and you never did.".
Despite what the GP and the neurologist thought. (I learned later, the neurologist had overseen the death of my grandfather from brain cancer.at age 65. Not saying he could have been cured in 1953, but it's still a blot on his record, afaic. )

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On Thu, 14 Feb 2013 11:44:29 -0800, Jon Danniken

Doctors generally don't talk about stuff outside their expertise. Bottom line tho is if it has to do with my eyes, yes I'll obey, otherwise I'll seek other expertise.
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On 02-14-2013 21:20, Doug wrote:

Well, if it has to do with an MRI, isn't it outside the eye doctor's expertise? OTOH, if the MRI "experts" can't agree, then maybe an eye doctor is a good tie-breaker.
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Wes Groleau

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On 2/14/2013 9:38 AM, Doug Miller wrote:

You clearly didn't get the memo. All groups except this one have been deactivated since it really doesn't make sense to categorize things. I believe the renaming of this group to "alt" will happen later this month.
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On 02-14-2013 09:38, Doug Miller wrote:

Fairly obvious from what you snipped that he asked two doctors, and either one is greedy or the other is an idiot.
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Wes Groleau

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On Thu, 14 Feb 2013 23:08:07 -0500, Wes Groleau

Actually, neither were doctors. They were staff at these imaging clincis, One was the guy who showed me the locker to store my metal clothes and who started the machine to slide me into the doughnut Maybe he was going to do the whole test.
The other, who said I had to have the orbiatla xray, was someone on the phone, when I called to learn details and make an appointment.
Buit I dont' think either was going off on hir own. I think each represeented the policy of the clinic, and presumably of the chain each clinic was a part of.
Regarding the same GP who didn't immobilize my bad shoulder and who made the iniitial mistaken diagnosis of epilepsy: When I was still in 6th grade, JHS and HS, 7 7years, would not do the slightest thing over the telephone, even renew a prescription. It wasn't about making money, because he never charged us (and I saw his books once and 1/3 of the patients he saw that day he saw for free.) My mother was a cynic who though he was sued once, and was scared of being suied again. . I'm a goody two shoes and I figure he knew some doctor, who might not even have been sued, but knew he made an error, when he didn't see the patient and relied on the phone.
Maybe these two clinics and whoever makes the medical decisions are like that. One is using a valid, medically accepted standard, 3 or 4 hours of grinding and a little cutting is not a risk. And the other was once sued or knew someone , and was taking no chances, no matter what the "standard of care" nomrally is.
Although I tend to agree with whoever said, in many areas it's not about 4 hours. It's about one second when something bigger than normal or going in a different driection leaves the grinder and goes into my eye.
I've always wondered about that wrt xrays. My brother's a radiologist and he has to wear a clip on plastic rectangle, that has some x-ray film inside. Every week they develop it to make sure he hasn't gotten too many x-rays. But it seems to me it is likely just one ray that hits the wrong spot that causes problem. I can't ask my brother this, because a) he never like the physics part of radiology, he hasn't done therapy for 45 years, so he really doesn't get any radiation. . He just reads xrays (and mris cat scans, etc) and says what they mean And I don't want to tell him about the pain in my back until I get rid of it or I know more. .
This post needs editing, but I'm falling asleep in my chair.
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Then per Wes, the one that has a policy that the pre-procedure X-Ray is only necessary if you've been doing grinding frequently, but not if you did it occasionally, is clearly operated by idiots. A rational policy that makes sense to me is like this one which I posted previously from an MRI facility I found online:
"Previous Metal in the Eyes - If you have EVER had any metal chips or fragments in your eyes from welding, grinding, or any accidents of any sort, an eye x-ray must be taken prior to the study. Even if the metal fragment was taken out, or came out on its own, or if it occurred a long time ago, an x-ray is the only way to confirm that there are no fragments remaining. "
That would seem to be the important aspect, whether you had metal in your eyes previously or not. Not whether you ground metal a few times a year or everyday. A dummy that isn't a pro could probably have a higher probability of having had metal in their eye doing it occasionally as opposed to every day. And you would think you would remember it happening. But, given the wide range of patients these places encounter, I can see the policy of the place requiring it for all patients. You could have people with memory lapses, liars, coummincation problems, who knows.... But the other policy, basing it on frequency of grinding, is just nuts.....
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On Fri, 15 Feb 2013 07:48:49 -0800 (PST), " snipped-for-privacy@optonline.net"

Actually he had me take off all my clothes except underwear (and gave me something else to wear). But they do allow you to keep the filings in your teeth! Related to teeth: "Caps, crowns, pins, permanent wires, etc. can be scanned with no problem."
Tidbit:s: Eye Shadow - Some eye makeup has a metallic base and may cause your eyelids to flutter. Therefore, if you are having a study done of your head, please remove all eye makeup before coming to the MRI Center.
Hernia Mesh - This is okay and will not cause you any harm, even if it is metal.
Rings [see the last sentence especially] - Rings are okay to keep on if they are difficult to get off. They will not be affected by the magnetic field and will not cause the patient any harm during the scan. One exception might be if we are scanning a hand or wrist...having metal near the area we are scanning may cause artifact or interference in the imaging. Earrings will need to be taken out, as will nose rings, lip rings, tongue studs, and other body piercings, etc. (If you do not remove them, the magnet may remove it for you!)
Loads of other rules not copied.
Save your operative r eports from anything they insert in you. Especially model and serial numbers.

Googling for these two lines shows several places using the same language. And the third hit is your very post to which I"m replying.

In the old days, I remembered everything I'd ever done, everything I'd ever said, and every place I'd ever been. But that is fading.
I was certain my dentist had told me a very touching story (that related somewhat to dentists) . So I went back to him, even though I'd moved out of town, and asked him about the story. He says he never heard it before. (Of course he might have forgotten. He's a few years older than I am.)
A similar thing with a story a friend told me. Insists he didn't tell me and never heard it before.
? But, given the wide range of patients these

I was back at the orthopedist's office today and didnt' talk to him but did talk to the office manager, a busy woman answering questions for a non-doctor office and medical stafff of about 20. She said, "Any history of metal work" and I told her how the place in the same building they are in had such a lax standard. She waved her arms, but later I will go back and tell someone who is not busy and higher up.

what I had written, and neither has that I can find a policy statement online about metal in one's eye like the kind you posted above.
At any rate, I found at least one machine that is 70cm in diameter (instead of 50,) and only 45 'inches from one end to end, which means if my lumbar back is in the middle of the 45 inches, I think my head will be outside. In the first machine, the "ceiling" of the tube was just one inch above my nose. I only lasted 3 seconds. Even now, just thinking about these machines gives me the heeby jeebies. I also got a prescription for a tranquilizer, but maybe I won't need that.
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On 02-16-2013 04:52, micky wrote:

USUALLY.
" Tooth fillings and orthopedic implants are generally not problematic, Kanal said, but there are rare exceptions, such as temporary magnetic root caps. "
quote from <http://abcnews.go.com/US/story?id 745&page=1>
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Wes Groleau

Even if you do learn to speak correct English,
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On 2/15/2013 12:20 AM, micky wrote:

specialty) and take difficult board certification exams to become board certified specialists is because there's a lot to learn beyond the training of a GP. When I was in orthopedic practice and was called from the ER, I never accepted the clinical assessment of a non-orthopedist and never accepted an x-ray reading from a non-radiologist. I felt if the issue was significant enough to be called, I needed to see the patient and the x-ray myself and always went into the ER even when told there was no need. I estimate that 25-40% of the time I found something significant that had been missed. Collecting a fee was not part of the equation - I was active duty military.

each practitioner's training, clinical experience, and willingness to take chances is different. The TV shows cause laymen to think that if the database of relevant tests is large enough, and the decision algorithm is followed, the "correct" conclusion will be achieved with 100% accuracy. Real life practice is not like that.

Yes. For each patient, for each condition, prognosis and outcome, it is always either 0% chance or 100% chance. That's why it is unwise to blindly expect the statistical likelihood for a group to pertain to every member of that group.

x-ray film badges monitor for malfunctioning equipment in addition to violations of proper radiation safety protocols. Mountains of books and articles have been written about radiation risks. In most exposure scenarios, there seems to be a minimum threshold of exposure below which our statistical techniques fail to detect increased risk. Whether that reflects a physiological ability of the body to kill almost all isolated single cells gone wild or a weakness in the statistics - probably a combination of both. However, above that threshold, there's a clear dose - effect correlation with risk of bad things happening. The dose-effect curves are unique to each type of radiation, the energy level of that radiation, the tissue being irradiated, etc. etc. etc. You'd need to take an entire course in radiation physics and another one in radiation physiology and pathology just to get an introductory understanding of the complexity of the subject.
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wrote:

I worked briefly in a machine shop and have been doing a lot of grinding over the years. When I was younger I never wore eye protection. Now that I'm older and realize I'm not invincible I do. I was told to get an X-ray before getting an MRI. IMHO it is very unlikely you have any metal in your eyes.. I had none in mine... BUT there is no reason not to go get the X-ray first and then get the MRI. It would be foolish to just hope for the best given the difficulty of replacing an eyeball if you do happen to have a stray piece of metal in there.
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wrote:

Thanks. I'll do that.
BTW, what I have gotten near my eye is wires from the wire brush.
I love the wire brush and use it a lot**. and every so often a wire comes out. and sometimes stab me in the face and stick there. I've gotten much better about wearing safety glasses.
The wire brush has often had no shield, because it was bigger than the shield I had
** A few minutes witha wire brush on a grinder makes things look like new. All t he rust off tools, a little oil to make them work well. Works on wood and other materials too.
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wrote:

That's sickening, but I guess I would do it if I needed it. As I said, my friend went maybe 50 years ago to the Wilmer Eye Clinic (world famous and part of Johns Hopkins Hospital now) where they had a machine to take the metal sliver out of his eye. But you can't have one of those everywhere, like you can a horse hair.

Pretty well, pehaps.

Maybe. Some interesting values, from http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tesla_%28unit%29
31 µT (3.1×10-5 T) - strength of Earth's magnetic field at 0° latitude (on the equator) 5 mT - the strength of a typical refrigerator magnet 0.3 T - the strength of solar sunspots 1.25 T - magnetic field intensity at the surface of a neodymium magnet 1 T to 2.4 T - coil gap of a typical loudspeaker magnet 1.5 T to 3 T - strength of medical magnetic resonance imaging systems in practice, experimentally up to 17 T[9]
The 3 prior ones are sort of amazing. Especailly that iiuc, the empty space where the coil of a loudspeaker resides is 1 to 2.4T, almost as much as an MRI machine's strength. And those new supermagnets anyone can afford are a close third.
4 T - strength of the superconducting magnet built around the CMS detector at CERN[10] 13 T - strength of ITER fusion reactor[11] 16 T - magnetic field strength required to levitate a frog as part of an Ig Nobel Prize winning project.[12]

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No special machine is required. I've had things removed from my eye twice. They just seat you in a chair that has a chin rest in front of you for your head to rest in, similar to what they use for some eye exams. They apply an anesthetic and after it's taken effect, the doctor using magnifiying goggles uses an instrument to pick it out. Probably took 15 or 20 mins total. Any opthamologist should be able to do it. That is assuming it's just the typical small shard. If you have an ice pick, well, that's another story.
And let me tell you, like I think it was Steve B said, if you had something like that in your eye, you sure as hell would know it, because it's extremely irritating, painful and annoying. You can't wait to get to the doctor to get it out.
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On Sat, 16 Feb 2013 06:44:35 -0800 (PST), " snipped-for-privacy@optonline.net"

An ice pick should be easy to remove. It has a handle.

said they used a machine, but maybe he fortgets some details after 50 years.
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wrote:

What's this about aliens?

I would do whatever the aliens said. (I assume they're from Neptune and not Mexico.)

So some aliens are kind to humans. That's good to hear. Glad you're all right.

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