DIY solar panel install

[ls02]

Has anyone done DIY solar panel installation? Do federal and state subsidies and credits still apply for DIY solar install? I live in central NJ and researching possibility of solar panel. I am not driven by green paranoia, only by economics. So if economics does not deliver I will not do it.

From what I read and heard multiple times if solar panels are installed by a pro even with all subsidies and credits it is still very bad economic deal and it takes zillion years to recoup huge investment. What I thought is good portion of this cost is installation and if I can install them myself I could make numbers align better. Any info on DIY solar install and personal experience would be greatly appreciated.

[hrhofmann]

What kind of solar panel? Electricity generation, preheat hot water,?????

[ls02]

Electricity.

[Stormin Mormon]

guy has a lot of eperience in the field.

[LSMFT]

Most federal and state incentives are for the purchase, not the installation. So you can do it yourself. I got tax deductions for my replacement windows and biomass pellet stove and did it myself. When I do solar water and electric I will do it myself. Some low income weatherization and insulation installations may be subsidized though.

[Molly Brown]

Please remember that solar panels have about a twenty year life span. After twenty years you will need to buy new ones.

[Existential Angst]

Please remember that solar panels have about a twenty year life span. After twenty years you will need to buy new ones. ==================================================

Effing bummer! Rarely does anyone mention the lifespan of PVs! Just like battery packs for effing electric cars.

Here are some resulting depressing numbers, thumbnail.

At ShittyTwo's numbers ($3 per watt), for a 6,000 Watt system (an electric dryer draws 4,000 W), in DIY mode, that's $18K, just for starters. Materials, tie-ins, etc will proly bring the number to at least $20K.

Assuming 10c/kWhr from the grid, you will have to use 200,000 kWhrs to recoup your investment. Assuming 500 kWhrs/mo usage, it will take 400 months to recoup this investment, which is about 33 years -- already a poor ROI..

So if the life of PVs is in fact 20 years, they will conk out with more than a third of the way left to go to realize sed poor ROI, and you will have to do it all over again. Almost like a loan shark's vic.

Effed again.

Ditto hybrids/electrics. Assuming gas doesn't go to $15/gal, you are economically much better off with something like a Honda Fit, Nissan Versa, etc.

More coal-fired generators and oil drilling, please!

[John Grabowski]

*I am an electrical contractor in NJ. I am currently not promoting the installation of photovoltaic panels through my business. I have taken some classes and talked with several installers of solar panels and have not become convinced it is something that everyone should have. With rebates and tax credits it can almost make economic sense for an average homeowner, but you need to look at the big picture. Where will you install the panels? Not every roof can withstand the extra weight. What will you do when the roof needs replacing? How will you keep the panels clean? Will replacement parts be available as well as someone to repair the system after a few years? Will you be living in your house long enough to realize a payback? Is this something that will affect the value of your house one way or another? Will the panels look attractive? Since you plan to do the work yourself, do you have any experience working with live electricity? The panels start putting out juice as soon as they are exposed to daylight.

I have been hearing Trinity Solar in NJ advertise free installation. Give them a call and see what that is about.

I personally believe that you will get a better and faster payback with insulation which includes windows, doors, caulking and sealing and by improving energy efficiency. I've noticed that a number of customers are going for window replacement due to tax credits.

The solar fallacy sort of follows the same thinking as purchasing your own home is a good investment. Of course your home will appreciate in value over time. However when you add up the interest paid on the mortgage, the taxes, insurance, maintenance and upkeep as well as the purchasing and selling costs it can actually be a loss.

[George]

Of course not. Everything today is "magical" and somehow it will all work out if we think good thoughts and hand out huge "tax credits" (isn't that our money?)

Whats a "proly"?

Don't forget ancillary equipment such as the inverters needed to connect the panels to the AC grid.

Or maybe fewer McMansions and fewer people driving themselves and a large beverage around in their fluffed up trucks.

[aemeijers]

You've been warned before about speaking with common sense on here.....

[John Grabowski]

*Sorry :-)

[Existential Angst]

Proly = proberbly.

ROI = 45 years????

Or cities (Manhattan) lighting themselves up like Xmas trees, 365 days/year. In NYC, subway stations are lit up like a liberry for the myopic, with air conditioned terminals that likely rival the Astrodome ito hvac costs. Etc.

[HeyBub]

You have completely discounted the value of "feeling good about saving the environment." While admittedly this is hard to quantify, contentment is often a high-priced item.

For those for whom intent trumps results, solar panels would be a good deal at twice the price.

[George]

I go to NYC frequently. I am betting McMansions have way more energy use per capita than per capita use in NYC.

I can't say I have ever thought of the stations as being "overlit". I have never been on any NYC subway station property that was air conditioned. It would be impossible to air condition the open platforms. At most the deeper stations or ones with poor airflow have exhaust fans.

[LSMFT]

They don't conk out. They slowly decrease their efficiency over time. They might be at 75% efficiency in 20 years and might take longer to reach that.

[Han]

"HeyBub" wrote in news:Sr-dnWx9zKpXy5_RnZ2dnUVZ [e-mail]:

Nobody can predict the future price of electricity. I can hardly think the price would come down. So that is another imponderable.

[John Grabowski]

*I also did not consider bragging rights. I am not familiar with the manufacturing process for solar panels, but I would think that the factory uses electricity (Solar?) and other utilities for lighting, heat, computers etc. Then there's the diesel trucks that deliver the panels to a warehouse and get unloaded by a forklift. Then a local gas or diesel powered truck delivers them to the end user. How many trees were cut down for the factory and warehouse to be built? How much wildlife was displaced to make room for the parking lots and driveways? How much fertilizer will be put down on the factory lawn and garden to make it look pretty?

My personal opinion is that the only way to really save the environment and live in harmony with it is to stop population growth. There are too many people living on this planet sucking the life out of it. Unfortunately our economic system depends on growth and expansion. We bank on that premise.

[MIB]

Why stop there? Why not kill everyone so that the Earth may once again be its own native, non-exploited, pollution free environment where all life lives in peaceful harmony with one another. It's a picture perfect utopia. Hell, even the microbes and various other parasites will stop being what they are once the evil human influence is gone.

No more ice ages.

No more mega volcanoes.

I bet the comets and large asteroids will steer clear of the Earth, too.

What bliss...

[HeyBub]

Nah, there aren't too many people.

If all the folks on earth were stacked up like cordwood, they would fit in a cubic mile.

If everybody on the planet migrated to the state of West Virginia, they would not exceed the population density of Hong Kong.

And who wants to "live in harmony" with nature?

In nature there are ants and other creepy things.

But, in a way, we are in harmony with nature. I can't name a single organism that voluntarily limits its growth by not reproducing.

[Clot]

I appreciate the humo(u)r.

There lies our problem!