Appliance industry warns....

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On 7/21/2015 1:14 PM, Mark Lloyd wrote:

Most of my LED are distinctly blue.
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Christopher A. Young
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impossible to believe such dishwashers can be created? Cars used to get > 11 MPG and now they get incredible higher mileage out of the same single > gallon of gasoline. Why? Because the Feds pushed the industry to do so.
Utter and complete bilge. What are you, like 12 years old? There were a number of compact cars available in the 1950s and 1960s capable of delivering 20-25 miles per gallon, some of the smaller imports even higher. I've owned some of them myself over the years.
We don't need cadre of armed thugs (which is all that government is) dictating every aspect of our lives. I still use full-flow toilets and shower heads, and in general refuse to follow the dictates of the federal scumbags. They're little more than a criminal gang -- screw the bastards.
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On 7/21/2015 10:16 PM, Roger Blake wrote:

The equivalent to that 25 mpg car in the 60s is now 40 mpg.
That full size Chevy Caprice that got 11 mpg is now getting 28 mpg and is not stinking as much as the typical 50/60s cars.
My Sonata 2.0 Turbo will beat the older 10 mpg Cameros in the 1/4 mile and still get 28 mpg.
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wrote: > so

Thanks for the sanity check. I don't feel the need to respond to Mr. Blake, who seems to think adults make debating points by first insulting someone. I would say he's got it exactly backwards as to who's the pre-teen. (-:
http://www.pewtrusts.org/en/research-and-analysis/fact- sheets/2011/04/20/driving-to-545-mpg-the-history-of-fuel-economy
http://tinyurl.com/ok4lhwb
Has a pretty good recap of how mileage has increased in the US over the last 20 years. This chart shows it graphically:
http://www.pewtrusts.org/~/media/legacy/uploadedimages/peg/publications/fact_sheet/clenfueleconomychart650jpg.jpg
And while it's true there were some cars like VW's that got good mileage because they were so pitifully underpowered (former Karmann Ghia owner!) the fleet average pre-1975 was in the 11mpg range.
That site also says: <<In response to the oil price shocks of the early 1970s, Congress passed the nation's first Corporate Average Fuel Economy (CAFE) standards in 1975. The law called for a doubling of passenger-vehicle efficiency-to 27.5 miles per gallon (mpg)-within 10 years. The National Highway Traffic Safety Administration (NHTSA) was also given the authority to set a separate standard for "light trucks," which accounted for a fifth of new vehicle sales at the time. By 2002, light trucks had surpassed cars as the leader in light-duty vehicle sales.>>
So I am not sure where Mr. Blake is getting his information, but it's pretty clear that Federal guidelines had an awful lot to do with boosting the nation's average fuel economy and, as a wonder side benefit, sticking it to the Oil Sheiks.
As you noted, the economy didn't come completely at the expense of performance because there a plenty of cars that can really haul ass despite getting mileage far superior to the cars of 20 years ago. The free market can't do things like that - it has no mechanism to act in the public good for the most part. The Pew article closed by noting the industry's response to the CAFE standards:
<<Domestic automakers predicted that fuel economy improvements would require a fleet primarily of subcompacts. In 1974, a Ford executive testified that the standards could "result in a Ford product line consisting . . . of all sub- Pinto-sized vehicles." Despite these objections, Congress passed the law, and Ford's top seller today is its F-Series pickup.>>
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On 7/22/2015 12:05 AM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

I'm concerned about total weight, and crash worthiness.
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On 7/22/2015 8:15 AM, Stormin Mormon wrote:

Sonata has 5 star rating, cars from the 70's have no star ratings.
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On 7/22/2015 9:34 PM, Ed Pawlowski wrote:

Sherman tanks probably have no star rating either, but I'd drive one right over the top of that Sonata without having to increase the idle speed on the Sherman tank.
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On 7/21/2015 10:16 PM, Roger Blake wrote:

I've noted a disagrement or two with Robert Green. He does seem a bit left of myself on a few matters.
And I do agree that the US gov has changed from servants of the people to Our Nations Leaders. Perhaps it was always that way, but recently ever so much more so.
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On 7/22/15 8:09 AM, Stormin Mormon wrote:

budget but would show the common people who was boss. It didn't help the federal budget, but it did wonders for Washington's. He diversified from marijuana into liquor. Taxed at a far lower rate than guys like me, he ran the biggest still in North America.
I could have been on easy street if I could have sold the stuff I distilled in the cellar in grammar school. (I told the pharmacist I was buying the equipment for my chemistry set. The cellar was so dirty that my parents never went down there.)
Darned government interference! I wanted to hire Robert Mitchum to transport it. Then somebody told me Thunder Road was fiction.
My mother's uncle got caught. Every Wednesday, the warden gave him a 24-hour pass to tend the still the feds hadn't found. Naturally, the prison staff invited him to their parties.
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On 7/21/2015 10:16 PM, Roger Blake wrote:

You know you're in socialist utopia when someone comes along and insists that you need to use low flow garden hose to fill a five gallon bucket, so as to save water. Compared to a full flow hose, to fill the same bucket.
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On 7/22/2015 8:10 AM, Stormin Mormon wrote:

I have the "pleasure" of driving by a congressman's house on my way to work. Often his underground sprinklers are dumping a bazillion GPM on his lawn. Good thing they mandated low-flow shower heads for us "little people" to use.
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Oren posted for all of us...

Did you give him tweezers, gloves? Was he from Philly?
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<stuff snipped>

They've managed to save 20 millions gallons of clean water by switching to low flows. Scientists claim that hydrogen peroxide or sludge eating enzymes would be far safer to use than bleach.
http://blog.sfgate.com/opinionshop/2011/02/24/dont-dump-bleach-in-san- francisco-bay/#ixzz1F0D8BT3g
http://tinyurl.com/qzuutaz
I saw a "Dirty Jobs" episode that was filmed in the SF sewers. Apparently they serve as home to some impressive numbers of roaches and rats. The stink apparently gets bad only in the summer. California definitely needs the water savings so they'll work something out, I am sure.
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The only reason why they "make some money" is because the government pays all of the collection, sorting and transportation cost. The pittance they get paid for the material at the remanufacturing facility is nowhere near what we paid to get it there.
As I said before, things like metal and some paper, in some places, will make sense to transport but you can test that yourself. Go to a scrap yard and see what they will pay you for a truckload of it.
Then balance that against what it costs for us to actually collect and sort it.
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Was good for me. I got $4500 for a 23 year old F150 with about 200,000 miles on it plus a $100 tax credit and $450 for the scrap value of the truck.
Sweet!
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snipped-for-privacy@aol.com posted for all of us...

So YOU are to blame for this mess! :)
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wrote:

I thought I was saving the world by getting that smoking, oil dripping death trap off the road ;-)
My wife traded it for a new Lincoln.
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The only Gvt handout that ever did me the slightest bit of good. But still a stupid program.
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Oren posted for all of us...

That was our first insight at the future...
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On Tue, 21 Jul 2015 12:33:04 -0700 (PDT), Uncle Monster

You could even pay the collection cost, since we have to do that anyway. Just make the recycler justify the sorting and transportation costs after it gets to the central site, Plastics may be the toughest to justify but glass is a close second. Both need detailed sorting before you have anything remotely useful. Plastics are broken down into at least a half dozen categories and you almost have to read the label to see what you have. At least you can sort glass by color and what it comes from. Bottles are not the same as windows even tho they both might be clear.
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