My brother recently put an air conditioner in the fireplace to cool of a single floor home. He has a water circulating heating system for winter. My question is, does anyone make a chilling unit for water systems ? Is this a good way to air condition a home ?
Jim
-- "The only dumb question is the one that is never asked " -- Except that one.
I wouldn't think so. Part of what an A/C does is remove moisture from the air, so you need to circualte air around through a cooling device. Besides, if you tried to cool the fluid of a radiant heat system, you'd have condensation all over the place, and the chance for mould growth.
Many larger buildings use a cooler on top of the building, adn circulate cold water to cool the rest of the building. I'm not sure why this isn't done in residential homes.
There was a time in the 60's in New York City when a number of larger residential buildings and complexes that contained maybe 300 - 2500 units each did use this type of system. The circulating pipes ran through finned radiators with a fan behind them and a univent system for allowing air exchange.
I assume builders stopped doing this for lots of reasons, not the least of which was the lack of zoning (i.e the cool water passed through all units whether anyone was there or not) and the the fact that the cooling was paid for by the building and not charged to the occupant according to usage. Also the transition between the heating and cooling season was a problem as you could respond to alternating hot and cold spells in the spring and fall.
In addition, it just didn't cool (and dehumidify) as well as a chilled air (local compressor based) system. So the answer to the question is that it was tried and found wanting.
You shouldn't comment on anything. You're not sure of anything. You will only make things worse. You're a clueless newbie installer. Your advice is bunk, like your religion.
If you are talking about a swamp cooler, its done all the time...if you are talking about a chiller, a totally different animal, its not done in residential due to cost of install, cost of maintaining, the fact that the average home isnt 20,000SF with several dozen zones...etc..
I can assume you have never worked on a chiller system, ran water treatment, recharged one, replaced a $15,000 barrel assembly, or a $4500 compressor, or the like... THATS why its not used in residential. For the cost of ONE compressor, and most chillers are multi staged, with several on the smaller units, most peole can get a complete system installed, that has FAR less upkeep, and far less design issues than a chiller...not to mention the amount of water that is used in some of the cooling towers, water that never sees the system, other than to act as the cooling medium for the condensor section of the unit....then, there is the issue of water leaks over time...control zone valves, pneumatic hoses and pumps failing..etc. On a huge complex, its the best most cost effective method for cooling large areas, or ALOT of smaller zones, with independent controls, like a hotel...or a high rise office space. On something as small as a home, good old forced air type of cooling and heating normally works best...and there are exceptions to this, but overall, and for the most part, its true.
I can see it now..Yes, sir..we can get it running, but the towers rusted out and while its a small cooling tower, with permits, and inspections parts and labor..oh.labor? About 5 days.....its going to cost 6500 dollars min....holy crap..I can put in two, maybe THREE small systems for that.
Sorry about that ..looks like you took my reply to SMormon to be to you..but..
A swamp cooler is also known as an evaporative cooler...very common out west, and in dry but hot climes. Its cooling effect is excellent in the dry area and many homes out in the deserts, use this only as cooling. Basically, its a tray of water, a pump, and either one large pad, or 4 or more pads made of either a resin treated cardboard, aspen wood or a mesh, that the water is flowed up and down, and a large blower that pulls outside air in over the pads, and down into the home. They will only work if the windows to the home are open, or if the home is equipped with a device known as an UpDuct, or a barometric dampner in each area of the home that you want to cool that way.
They are also used in the more humid areas of the country, normally on dry cleaners, or furniture factorys. With a pre-cooler added to one, like the MasterCool liine, you can actually use them in very humid enviroments and they work alright.
As far as a chiller goes...a chiller is BASICALLY nothing but what you have now, except of course, there is a method of cooling the water in barrels, that is pumped into the areas into a cooling type coil, with a blower, and condensate water removal for each area serviced, and in a residential setting, its pointless. Price spent to install, maintain and run the unit is crazy for that small of an area, when compared to standard AC units. The cooling tower alone would cost more than the standard FA (forced air) AC unit complete would cost...plus, in addition, you would need to have a means of removal of the condensation produced, and that would mean a complete retrofit of what you have now. Several extra thousand dollars.
Also, the putting the window AC in the fireplace...thats kind of defeating the purpose of the unit...it removes heat from the home and removes humidity...I dare to guess that while its doing a fair job, its not doing NEAR what it can,as the flue is NOT going to have a proper draft to remove the humidity produced by the evap that is being slung onto the condensor that is being added back and out into the room, nor is it allowing ALL the heat produced by the condensor and motors to be released outdoors. Find a window and mount it correctly and I bet hes surprised at the difference.
When you say "chiller", I think of a large building with a huge refrigeration system that chills water. The cold water is piped to the rooms, to help cool the rooms.
A "swamp cooler" is a device used in dry parts of the country such as Arizona. It circulates air through a wet media of some sort. (The only one I've worked on was the one I was taking apart many years ago.) In dry parts of the country, evaporating water into the air cools the air and is much more comfortable. Cheaper than freon units to run. Fan, and a water valve to supply water.
In my part of the world, winters are too dry, so we evaporate water to make the dry indoor winter air more comfortable.
Thanks for the onsite report from NYC. I thought they had chillers there -- well, maybe they used to?
Peace be unto you, also. Thanks for the polite reply. Better than some impolite people I've got killfiled.
They send the chilled water to special coils on the lower floors where the air is cooled and the condensation is removed. The air is then moved into the room with fans.
Just a note to this..
A chiller that is operating correctly, can remove as much, if not more moisture from the air than a R22 or like refrigerannt coil system, as the temps can be actually lower than in a conventianal system.
Its all in the coil design, and todays coils are not the ones of yesterday.
compressor,
I thought you new wave Jehovahs Witnesses didnt lie... Oh..sorry..I had you confused with someone with a religion thats not considered a cult...
Hi Jim, hope you are having a nice day
On 06-Aug-03 At About 01:15:50, Jim Z wrote to All Subject: AC question
JZ> From: "Jim Z"
JZ> My question is, does anyone make a chilling unit for JZ> water systems ? Is this a good way to air condition a home ?
No, to cool with chilled water you need a fan and a way to remove the condensate that would form on the coils.
-=> HvacTech2
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