Amazing HVAC Techs

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The arrogance in this group is overwhelming. You treat people who want to do work in their own home as cheap stupid animals who should depend completely on the local HVAC contractor.
Why? What makes you and this trade so special? Is it because you get to look down your nose at other commercial/residential construction workers you run into that don't have a 2 year degree?
Looking to save a buck maybe part of the reason why people want to do their own work. The desire to be self-reliant is part of it too.
Would you hire someone to do any of these things: 1. ) Replace the power supply in your PC 2. ) Insulate the Attic 3. ) Install drop ceiling in rear bedroom 4. ) Replace compnents in the toilet 5. ) Replace the stairs to the back porch 6. ) Replace hot water heater 7. ) Add an electical outlet 8. ) Install a ceiling fan etc...etc..etc
The bizarre thing about it is there is so much work in this field and there's is always jobs in the paper, and yet most of you act as if your starving.
Richard
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Yeah, and we are all nice and warm and paying low utility bills.
Fuck off!
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ok......there is _some_ degree of arrogance but ill tell you......its EARNED. anyone can hack, but to truly _master_ the trade takes far more skill than you could possibly appreciate.

if you spend the time to master the trade and get the proper certifications you can do all you want......until such time you SHOULD depend completely on a licensed, experienced contractor.

um......its a specialized trade.

now youre just being an asshole.
.......and for the record some of the most knowledgeable techs youll ever meet have _never_ been to trade school.

in violation of the law, as well as potentially endangering your family.

nope. i would tell my 12 year old to do it.

nothing hazardous there, so long as you follow the basic codes.

monkey work (any trained monkey could do it).

1- if the water was hot, it wouldnt need a heater. 2- quite often changing a water heater is an hvac issue anyway. look up hydronic heat sometime.

no code against it in montana.

monkey work.

has nothing to do with starving. most every job you listed pays less than $12 an hour. why? little to no skill involved. hvac is a science and the homeowner most often has no business touching it other than to do the basics (changing filters/t-stat/cleaning coils, etc.).
--
Nathan in Montana
http://BighornRefrigeration.com
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In 2 seperate sections Nathan in Montana wrote"

---------
I stand corrected. So beyond the Duct Calculator, the HVAC Tech's understanding is "tips and tricks" and "rules of thumb" learned over the years of working?
This response to my original post only validates the presumtion that the following 3 approaches should be sufficient:
A) using "tools" software or otherwise, .to determine sizing. B)"rules of thumb" to simplify the work otherwise done by complex equations that, apparently, most HVAC Techs don't know anyway. C) "Tips and Tricks" gathered from more experienced Tech through a variety of mediums.
I'm still not convinced that your trade is as esoteric as you like to make it. The countless disparaging responses in this group only fuel my inquiry. The question, "Is this really that complicated or is there some other agenda here", stands as tall as the questions about the HVAC project itself.
This is the Information Age. Aquisition and exchange of of knowledge that would have taken someone years to gather can be aquired in months or weeks.

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wrote:

Pissy little window licker. You can only dream to be one of us. You and your job must really suck. Bubba

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Damn! What kind of learning disability do you have? If that is all you have learned about HVAC work, then you have not been paying much attention. If you wanted to begin to learn about the knowledge required of HVAC technicians, you could start by reviewing the national standards and the technical journals published by all of these organizations: a.. ACCA -- Air Conditioning Contractors of America b.. AHAM -- Association of Home Appliance Manufacturers c.. ANSI -- American National Standards Institute d.. ARI -- Air-Conditioning and Refrigeration Institute e.. AMCA -- Air Movement & Control Association f.. ARWI -- Air-conditioning & Refrigeration Wholesalers Association g.. ASHRAE -- American Society of Heating, Refrigerating & A/C Engineers h.. GAMA -- Gas Appliance Manufacturers Association i.. HARDI -- Heating, Airconditioning and Refrigeration Distributors International j.. HRAI -- Heating, Refrigerating, & Air-Conditioning Institute of Canada k.. IIAR -- Inernational Institute of Ammonia Refrigeration l.. NAM -- National Association of Manufacturers m.. NATE -- North American Technician Excellence Program n.. PHCC -- Plumbing Heating Cooling Contractors Association o.. RSES -- Refrigeration Service Engineers Society p.. SMACNA -- Sheet Metal and Air Conditioning Contractors' National Association

Hah! I guess you earned your PhD by visiting the website of the PhD school in the Virgin Islands?
You should be quite capable of performing spinal cord surgery after a few hours on Google?
Richard, you are quite a DUMBSHIT.
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Richard,
Here's a simple task for you.... Go take the exam for Master HVAC Technician and tell us how you fair.
I guess it "isn't" quite rocket science, is it??
Its more complicated than that.

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no. its a trade most often masastered only after years of working under others who have already mastered the trade (journeymen). i wouldnt hire someone fresh out of tech school, i dont care how much of a degree they have. id much rather find someone with 5+ years of OJT.

your over-simplification shows your ignorance in this field. i dont mean ignorance as a common insult mind you, im using the literal definition.

heh......i dont care. i legally profit well into the 6 figures and i dont even have a high school diploma.

some folks come off as assholes, ill give you that. still, it has nothing to do with the validity of the complexity of this trade.

this is _only_ due to your own ignorance. the question has indeed been answered.

just because information is readily available does not make one a master of that same information. knowing how to apply the information is not something you can learn from anything youll find on the internet. sorry, no short cuts.
--
Nathan in Montana
http://ConcealedCarryForum.com
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The real point is Richard, that these guys cannot see your system and diagnose it for you. They can't take a chance and give you advice that may cause injury to you, your family or cause your house to burn down.
I'm not in the HVAC trade, and it took me a while reading through many many posts here to realize that this is really a place for the trades guys too shoot the breeze after work and have some fun. Not as much fun as a tittie bar, but lots cheaper. And when home owners (shhh, I am one too!) ask questions, I don't think they really give a shit about you wanting to save a few bucks; at least I don't think its the MAIN concern. There IS lots to know about this trade. I have worked with a friend of mine who is in, and it amazes me, some of the stuff we think is simple just has to be done correctly to work right. Sure, a shade tree mechanic can assemble a runnable engine from salvaged parts from failed ones, but that does not make him a NASCAR mechanic by any means. We all try to save money by doing things ourselves, me included. Sometimes I do a better job than a "Pro" in some fields, but HVAC covers lots of ground. I can't do HVAC work properly; I have tried, thinking I knew what I was doing, but I found out I only knew enough to fool myself.
Now enough of me trying to be a good guy. I am a grouchy old bastard having a weak moment.
Bob
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DIMwit wrote:

    Much of what you say is true, but often posters will simply ask the opinion of what a professional thinks of a manufacturer's equipment or HVAC procedure. Such a request is not asking for the revealing of trade secrets, any more than asking a neighbor who owns a particular brand what he thinks of his car.
    Everyone agrees that spending your money on a competent professional is better than spending it on an incompetent one. Recently I had my heating/AC systems replaced and sought recommendations from others I knew about who did a quality job at a competitive price. At the recommendation of several such neighbors, I had several professionals bid on the job. Before they even looked at the job I stated that I wanted a "Quality job" done and that if they were not able to do so, they should not even bid on the job.
    Now I will not go into every item I had them correct, but I will say his idea of quality and mine was not the same. I fact, I KNOW some of the items were in violation of the codes.
    I WILL say that he did comply with my complaints, and the systems are NOW working to my expectations. It is just a shame that I had to bring to his attention items that he was prepared to ignore, as he saw the job as complete. Others with less knowledge or less time might have taken him at his word that he had done the job right.
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There are a number of regulars here that claim this supposed to be a "professionals" only group. But I know there are a number of good, moderated professional hvac groups that speciifcally ban diy questions. So why do these regulars stay here and bash homeowners?
I agree that hvac work is a highly technical field and can be very complicated in some situations. It is not however a science. Your basic residential split ac or gas furnace is not particularly complicated. With careful consideration for the dangers involved in natural gas and high pressure refrigerant some repairs can be made by competent non-professionals.
Ken wrote:

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so you know how to size a unit? the ductwork? how many microns of humidity is safe (experienced techs PLEASE dont answer)? how many mF are safe on a 3 ton scroll? surely this is something you can find on google......
--
Nathan in Montana
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I said a competent nonprofessionals can make some repairs to residential heating and cooling systems. If you want to argue, at least try to argue about what I said.
Nathan In Montana wrote:

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If ignorance were painful, that woulda been a Vicodin reply.
--

Christopher A. Young
You can\'t shout down a troll.
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and im telling you that they _cant_. if the issue is an electric issue then i suppose any good monkey could make the repair assuming they could diagnose it to begin with. _however_, would they be able to determine the original cause? sure you can crimp on a new spade terminal to make your compressor run again, but do you know why a compressor burnt its terminal to begin with?

im not trying to argue. im trying to show you the depths of your own ignorance. that you would resist this makes my point for me.
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Nathan in Montana
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The only point that it looks to me like you are making is the other guy's point about the arrogance of some hvac techs.
Nathan In Montana wrote:

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which further validates my point about your own level of ignorance on this industry. again, fixing the problem doesnt solve the cause. for example, the electrician/homeowner who bypassed his limit switch to make his furnace run. sure, the furnace ran......and ultimately compromised the heat exchanger thus endangering his entire family (look up CO sometime). a skilled HVAC/R technician wouldnt have simply assumed that the limit switch was bad and bypassed it. its quite possible that youre a journeyman electrician or mechanic of some type, but do you know what would cause a limit switch to lock a system out?

im just trying to save you a whole lot of hurt, but if you know better than i.....
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Nathan in Montana
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You keep wanting to test my knowledge on the subject.
The burnt terminal could have just been a bad connection. But it suggests that the compressor may have been drawing too much currrent and further investigation would be called for before calling it fixed.
The limit switch you are referring to will turn off the furnace when an excessive temperature is reached. Again it calls for further investigation once it has been determined that the switch is tripping at the designed for temp. Could be because of inadequate air flow across the exchanger.
What exactly does it prove for me to know some things? Both of these are sort of common sense things. They are not specific to hvac. And ordinary electric clothes dryer has an overtemp limit safety switch. Bypassing it can result in burning down your house. Possibly just as fatal as carbon monoxide poisoning. Anyone worth their salt will want to understand what conditions lead to a component failure. Components can fail on their own but often it is the result of some factor exceeded the designed for limits of the component. And bypassing safety devices is just a bad idea.
Nathan In Montana wrote:

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if you believe you can handle hvac/r repairs as good as a qualified service tech then yes, i do want to test your knowledge.

the compressor drawing to much current would indeed burn the connection, but this is the side effect of what problem? .....of course you dont have any idea. this is where field experience comes in.
on the other hand, since there is nothing difficult about this trade i wish you and your family the best of luck. please dont kill them.
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Nathan in Montana
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You keep wanting to put words in my mouth. I didn't say there was nothing difficult, I said SOME OF IT was not difficult.
Shorted windings. Or a problem in the lines or evap causing an excessive high side pressure. At this point in the problem once I had figured out that the compressor was probably drawing too much current I would call a service guy. I don't have the equipment to follow this particular problem much further.
I noticed you didn't have any complaints about the limit switch answer :-)

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