Systemic pesticide for roses

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I would like to use a systemic pesticide on my roses.
I've heard systemic pesticides can be very dangerous.
I've tried several different sprays and am not satisfied with the results.
Can anyone recommend a brand of systemic pesticide that is not so dangerous to humans and pets?
Thanks,
Freckles
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wrote:

Some of us who inhabit the same biosphere as you wish you wouldn't.

Yes...all poisons are harmful to children ant other living beings.

Good. Quit using them.

No.
Charlie
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"Freckles" wrote

Roses are a magnet for insects... molds, smuts, all manner of nasties that want to do in your roses.
Depending on the physical arrangement of your roses, if relatively close to each other, you may want to look into ordering some ladybug or preying mantis egg casings... although I think that is mostly a method to assuage your psyche that you're doing the right thing. These are the natural preditors of aphids, white flies, and other insects... I've tried it without much luck, I think they migrated to a neighbor's garden. But to be perfectly honest there is no sure fire organic insect control method... by the time many of the so-called organic methods have some effect your plants will be pretty much skeletonized... you'll get that good feeling that comes with thinking you're doing the right thing but you won't get any roses. Anytime you see a showcase rose garden you can bet your bippee they are using chemical insecticides... if used judiciously they don't cause any problems... choose the correct type and read and follow the directions... I think you can find excellent help at jacksonandperkins.com
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Write down the names of the products then do a google search for them, add a comma MSDS(,MSDS) (Material Safety Data Sheet). Yes some of these biocides are highly effective at killing your pest, and any other insect inside the perimeter of exposure. In medicine, the injunction is, "First, do no harm", the same should hold true when treating the planet. True, your roses may not look like they just came out of Photoshop but is that so bad? We have grown roses organically for the last thirty years, and if I do say so myself, they very pretty to see.
--

- Billy
"For the first time in the history of the world, every human being
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"Billy" wrote:

Missouri
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On 5/4/2009 10:08 PM, Freckles wrote:

I use Bayer's Rose & Flower Care, which combines fertilizer and systemic insecticide in a dry granular form. Although I feed my roses every month from March through October, I use this product only every-other month to get excellent results. In the alternating months, I feed my roses with ammonium sulfate.
You might instead consider using Bayer's 12 Month Tree & Shrub Insect Control, which is a systemic applied as a soil drench. I used this very successfully to control leaf miners on citrus. It is considered non-toxic to vertebrates (humans, other mammals, birds, reptiles, fish, etc) and is thus safe on edibles. It controls such rose pests as aphid and white fly. I haven't tried this on my own roses. You might call your local agricultural extension to ask about using it. I will be calling my county's agricultural extension when I replace my peach tree to determine if it will control flat-headed bark borers since Lindane is no longer available. NOTE: 12 Month Tree & Shrub Insect Control can be quite expensive; it cost over $20 to give one treatment each to a dwarf lemon and a dwarf orange.
--
David E. Ross
Climate: California Mediterranean
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David, if you and you other pesticide freaks would just give the downside of the biocides that you recommend so easily, it would make it easier for the recipient of your information to determine if it is something that they want to do.
Imidacloprid
ECOLOGICAL INFORMATION Environmental Precautions This product is highly toxic to birds and aquatic invertebrates. Do not apply directly to water, to areas where surface water is present or to intertidal areas below the mean high water mark. Apply this product only as specified on the label. http://www.cdms.net/ldat/mp8F5001.pdf
Why don't you learn about IPM so that you wouldn't have poison the environment to solve a pest problem, or is it just easier to throw poison-money at the problem, because you don't have the time to do it right?
To put Integrated Pest Management and biocides in perspective, I'd suggest that you read "American Pests: The Losing War on Insects from Colonial Times to DDT" by James E. McWilliams (Amazon.com product link shortened) X/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid38975011&sr=1-1
Your library should have it.
I'm still on your Christmas card list, aren't I?
--

- Billy
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Thanks for the information.
I just order some Bayer insect control plus fertilizer plant spikes which seem to be just what I want.
I've been watching the organic vs. chemical debate for years. I have tried to go organic, but with very limited success. The plant stakes I've ordered seem safe enough and they are not too expensive. Much of the organic materials I've used were a lot more expensive than chemicals and in many cases I needed to use much more of them to get the same results I could have gotten with a few chemicals.
If my grand dad had tried to go organic on our farm, we would have starved.
Freckles
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wrote:

I don't know anything about what you ordered, but I recently fed the roses an "organic" food that my dog couldn't resist eating. I'm thinking about re-applying, but I'll block off his access first.
Kate

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On 5/5/2009 6:30 PM, Freckles wrote:

Too many people confuse "organic" with "natural". For my comments on this, see my <http://www.rossde.com/garden/garden_organic.html .
My own gardening practices involve a mix of organic methods and non-organic methods.
I produce my own compost (actually, a leaf mold), which I add to my potting mix to inject the mix with the kinds of soil bacteria that are needed to convert nutrients into forms that plant roots can absorb. I use bone meal and blood meal in my potting mix for house plants. I generally wait for ladybugs to deal with aphids. (I don't have to buy and disperse them; they come naturally.)
To combat brown snails (Helix aspersa, also known as Cantareus aspersus), I can't use poisonous snail bait because my tortoise would then eat the still toxic dead snails. Instead, I use carnivorous decollate snails (Rumina decollata), which eat the eggs and young of the brown snails. I also wrap copper wire around flower pots containing plants that are especially attractive to brown snails.
On the other hand, I feed my roses, citrus, and other plants with chemical fertilizers. After pruning them, I spray my peach, roses, and grapes with a mix of dormant oil and copper sulfate. Newly planted flowering shrubs have super-phosphate dug into the soil below their root balls. Yes, I do use systemic insecticides on my roses and citrus and Roundup on thistles sprouting on my hill. As for my leaf mold, I accelerate its decomposition by adding urea (50-0-0) to the pile.
Am I an environmental rogue? I don't think so. Birds and squirrels seem to enjoy my garden. Raccoons steal my grapes. Many, many bees constantly visit my flowers. And Cleopatra -- an endangered California desert tortoise (Gopherus agassizii) -- has happily grazed in my back yard since 1977. (Before you consider reporting me for having a contraband tortoise, Cleopatra is already registered with the California Department of Fish and Game; she is legal.)
--
David E. Ross
Climate: California Mediterranean
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Did I mention southern Californians passion for posing and a complete disconnect with reality?
How's the Nobel Prize coming along David?

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- Billy
"For the first time in the history of the world, every human being
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You're right. People kill people.
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- Billy
"For the first time in the history of the world, every human being
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wrote:

Ignorance kills people. And greed.
He is concerned about *his* tortoise, doesn't want to poison it with toxins, but has no concerns about systemically poisoning children via the groundwater, etc.
Typical. All about me and mine, who gives a shit about them. Feh!
Charlie
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On 5/6/2009 10:03 PM, Charlie wrote:

As I already wrote, NATURAL minerals have made the ground water in this area naturally toxic. It is unfit for irrigating crops, let alone drinking by humans or animals.
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David E. Ross
Climate: California Mediterranean
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On Wed, 06 May 2009 22:28:04 -0700, see Organization header

Which minerals are causing the toxicity and is their source naturally occuring or a result of man's activity?
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On 5/7/2009 6:54 AM, Charlie wrote:

Mostly NATURAL sufites and sulfates. (How many times do I have to say that they occur naturally?) There are also nodules of phosphate that explode spontaneously.
When schools were built in my community, the grading contractor had to dig down about 5 ft and haul away the native soil. Then, he had to bring in soil from elsewhere to fill the holes. It was considered unsafe to build a school on the native soil.
During a drought about 20 years ago, it was suggested to augment our water supply (imported from northern California) with well water. Even mixing only 1 part well water with 9 parts imported water would yield a witch's brew that could not be used for drinking.
Not all toxics in our environment are the result of human activity.
--
David E. Ross
Climate: California Mediterranean
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You don't have to add to the problem.
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- Billy
"For the first time in the history of the world, every human being
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On Thu, 07 May 2009 10:52:38 -0700, "David E. Ross"

Yeahhhh.....dumb place to live and a major strain on the resources of others in other places.

Sounds like a stoopit place to live. Just like growing things in an area tha isn't natural to them. Moronic.

Again, stoopit...living in an area that has not enough water to support the *wants* of ignorant people. Sheesh.

How tiresome, your excuse to add to the planetary toxic load because you, and others of your kind, choose to live in a rather unihabitable area. Eff me, sounds like a toxic waste area, let's use your backyard for nuke waste storage. An area that wasn't meant to support the load to which it is being subjected.
Charlie
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On Thu, 07 May 2009 22:06:36 -0500, Charlie wrote:

Rather a Luddite approach. Tornado alley would be deserted. The entire Ring of Fire would be empty, hell, even the Egyptians would have never thrived near the Nile.
Boron
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Why all the fuss ?
<http://www.happyplanetindex.org/ Look at the map and then think 1900 Imperialist's and then who are they and what color on the map. Some things never change that much.
Bill who wonders what the opposite of a Luddite or Anarchist is ? IMF, Imperialist's , Colonialist guess there are more.
Good Book by Andrew Bard Schmookler
"Debating The Good Society" subtitled "A quest To Bridge America's Moral Divide"
<(Amazon.com product link shortened) 7/ref=sr_1_4?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid41793557&sr=1-4>
--
Garden in shade zone 5 S Jersey USA

Not all who wander are lost.
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