Systemic pest killers

[Dayton]

Does anyone have experience, hopefully positive, using systemics on orchids? I am at my wit's end spraying Neem and insecticidal soaps for scale. Now mealies are beginning to show up as well. Getting very close to making a large trip to the compost heap (if the snow ever melts) and going back to ferns and begonias. Most of the problem children are phals potted in either soil-less mixes or moss. I suspect no systemic would work in a bark mix. I have a fairly old (20+ years) can of DiSyston granules(Disulfoton Diethyl ethyl phosphordithicate) that I've used on other soil based plants with some success. Cannot find any indication of use for orchids and there isn't much on the web. From what I've found, it may even be banned in some places. Not sure what else may be available, but I'm hoping something works. Appreciate any input anyone has.

[K Barrett]

I don't know if I'd use a chemical that was over 20 years old... let's see Was Reagan in office then??

Anyway, I've used Orthene and the newer breeds of insecticide like some of the Bayer products with imicloprid (not a systemic) in them.

But interestingly I used insecticidal soap to get rid of mealies that were invading the Paphs in my collection. Go figure. Worked for me but didn't work for you. But then I tend to hit things hard with the biggest gun I can find. (Orthene or Malathion) so maybe its not crazy that something simple would work. since the bugs in my collection probably hadn't had exposure to that insecticide.

If you can find Orthene use it. or malathion, water the day before in order to limit sequelae to the plant, cytotoxologic effects, like streaks/color break in flower buds. Won't stop them but will lessen them.

K Barrett

[Kenni Judd]

Dayton: Liquid Sevin is pretty effective for both scale and mealies, at recommended label rates. Mavrik (mentioned in another post) didn't seem to do much, around here. Cygon (if it's still around) will work, but does cause a lot of malformations, in my experience. For anything else that I know of, you'll have to read labels and make your own judgments about mixing. Orthene WP 75 (the 75 being the percentage of active ingredient) was my fav for many years. It worked _very_ well, but is no longer available around here. The active ingredient was acephate. The Orthene Fire Ant powders still out there are pretty much the same thing, except that the active ingredient is reduced (and I'm told it's illegal, at least in the US, to mix stronger, so as to get back to the 75%).

The Sevin and acephate, if properly applied (all over the plant, including lower leaf surfaces) DO work in bark and other "chunky" mixes, but it does take time. If you go with an acephate product or the Liquid Sevin, you need to spray once a week for 3 weeks. [I _wish_ I had a 1-time cure ...]. Otherwise, the pests will recur, and be more resistant the next time around.

To the extent possible (which I know depends on the number of plants at issue), the toothbrush (also previously mentioned by another poster) along with alcohol, soap or oil (if your conditions are not too hot for the latter), is also a very good idea. At minimum, it will get rid of the dead pests so you don't have to keep checking the same areas for re-infestation. It also provides a faster "knockdown" than you can get with any systemic I know of.

Seriously-infested plants will also benefit from repotting, for which the major season is approaching. Hope this helps, Kenni

[Dayton]

Thanks. The biggest problem in spraying is that the plants are in a closed room under flourescent and HID lights so ventilation is a real problem during the winter (Maine where the low was -15° last week). That's why I tried the Neem, it being a natural product. Will try some of the others, which I have all of for outdoor work, when I can open the windows or take the plants outside. Was hoping that there might be a magic bullet because the scale problem has been going on for a couple of years. Every time I think they're gone, I turn around and they're back.

[Bob Walsh]

[Minelli Family]

I don't order online anymore after several disappointing experiences. Would Home Depot carry Orange 409 and the soaps? I know they carry the usual insecticides.

I had cactus infested with root mealys about 10 years ago. I soaked them, in their pots, in Malathion and covered them with a plastic sheet for 24 hours to hold the fumes in. I did this a week apart for several weeks. It got them all. But now they may be resistant to Malathion. I believe the eggs are laid in the soil around the roots.

[Bob Walsh]

I don't know about Home Depot but you could check Wallgreens or Ace or others like grocers, hardware, ect.

Bob

[K Barrett]

[BruceM]

Our local Home depot's, Ace Hardware stores, feed and seed (like Tractor supply, TSC) and all the organic garden stores carry inseciticidal soaps, usually the brand called Safer.

[Ray B]

FWIW, I find that so-called "insecticidal soaps" offer no advantage over ordinary household liquid dishwashing detergents, and the same might be said for horticultural oils compared to vegetable cooking oils.

My preferred spray for spot treatments is a tablespoon each of cooking oil and liquid dishwashing soap (I use a brand made from 100% vegetable and fruit oils) in a quart of water.

[Minelli Family]

Wouldn't that leave the plants a sticky oily mess?

[Diana Kulaga]

At that concentration, it doesn't. And it really does work.

Diana

[Wendy7]

Hi there Pat, I was just going to ask if there were any new better weapons. I have been fighting a losing battle here in my two greenhouses, trying everything & for the last two years, Enstar & Mavrik the choice. Lots of $$$$ & for a while I thought I had them beat both mealies & soft scale. (Includes newly repotted plants)

Instead of just spraying, I started a special routine, a section in the g/h at a time. Just finished yesterday. A sort of production line.

1. Sprayed visible bugs with alcohol. Scrubbed ridges in pseudos with tooth brush.

1. Dipped the entire plant & pot in the Enstar/Mavrik solution. (Growth inhibitor/Contact killer)

2. Sprayed with a Neem Oil solution afterwards.

It took me 9 days to do the entire g/h & then I have to start spraying again to complete the Enstar/Mavrik regimen. I have tried everything in the past, tag plants with date etc, isolate & clean down to bear bones & still the bugs returen!!!

My point is, you jarred my train of thought here..........what do growers of thousands use. I think they throw them away & write off the loss.

I will not be using the &&&&& stuff & wondering Imicloprid is?

Got potting to do. Cheers Wendy

[Rob]

I found mealies in huge amounts growing on grass (big bluestem, I think) under my benches. Yes, I have grass growing under some of my benches along with the oxalis and jewel-weed, you got a problem with that? *grin*

Hopefully I can get the plants outside this summer and excercise my herbicidal tendencies.

[pakrat]

Nicotine smoke bombs perhaps?

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