Organic Clover Control

I have some clover in my lawn here in DC that is out of control. I understand that some clover is beneficial, but this is definitely too much of a good thing.
Is there something safe that I can put on it? I have 2 little ones, and I am not about to put anything toxic on the lawn.
On a side question, my neighbor, who lot is slightly higher than mine, uses chemicals freely, like Weed-B-Gone. Should I worry about runoff from his lawn?
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Years ago, I read that clover is an indicator that your lawn is either deficient in a particular nutrient or has too much of it. Since I like clover, I promptly flushed the information from my knowledge archive. But, go to www.hort.cornell.edu and poke around for more info. You can DEFINITELY solve the clover problem by getting your soil tested and making SAFE corrections. By the way, clover is not really a problem - it's actually a good soil conditioner. You just don't like it. :-)

uses
It is absolutely impossible for lawn chemicals to be tested and proven safe for contact with people. So, I'd urge the neighbor to work with you to minimize or eliminate their use entirely. They are the lazy person's way of dealing with lawn problems.
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safe
The same thing can be said about any food item. Duh.
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"Michel Buonarroti" <don't e-mail me> wrote in message

Duh. Food and medicines can be tasted/tested on human volunteers. Drug companies have occasionally solicited volunteers from prison populations for testing particularly risky drugs, but I am not aware of ANY instance in which a chemical company has asked for volunteers to ingest or be exposed to agricultural chemicals. You and I are the test population, but nobody asked for our permission.
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On Tue, 24 Aug 2004 14:32:28 GMT, "Doug Kanter"
:) :) "Michel Buonarroti" <don't e-mail me> wrote in message :) :) > > :) > > It is absolutely impossible for lawn chemicals to be tested and proven :) > safe :) > > for contact with people. :) > :) > The same thing can be said about any food item. Duh. :) > :) > :) :) Duh. Food and medicines can be tasted/tested on human volunteers. Drug :) companies have occasionally solicited volunteers from prison populations for :) testing particularly risky drugs, but I am not aware of ANY instance in :) which a chemical company has asked for volunteers to ingest or be exposed to :) agricultural chemicals. You and I are the test population, but nobody asked :) for our permission. :)
It was done in '96..results were not allowed..earlier this year a panel of gou't offficials gave the O.K. to use the results of such tests
http://msnbc.msn.com/id/4314918 / http://www.beyondpesticides.org/NEWS/daily_news_archive/2004/02_24_04.htm http://www.enn.com/news/20-02-2004/s_13311.asp
Lar. (to e-mail, get rid of the BUGS!!
It is said that the early bird gets the worm, but it is the second mouse that gets the cheese.
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proven
Drug
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asked
Too busy to read extensively at the moment. What do you mean by "results were not allowed"???
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Doug Kanter wrote:

I am not aware of any food or food components that have been "proven" to be safe for ingestion without adding the qualifier "in normal amounts." Asparagus, tomatoes, salt, sugar and even water can provoke a fatal reaction when ingested in large enough quantities. Some, such as peanuts or wheat products, can be fatal to some people in minute amounts.
Some foods are deemed to be safe for most people under most conditions in normal quantities, and the same can be said for lawn chemicals that are sold over the counter. Of course, that's not saying much when you really think about it.
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for
exposed to

asked
Fine. Forget food. Think of medicines. Here's an exercise. Let's say you had athlete's foot and could not get rid of it after 6 months of using over the counter products. You go to a dermatologist. She says "Well, here's a cream that's been around for decades and it works in about 2 weeks. But, there's this new thing - I just read that it's about to go to clinical trials next year. It's a pill. But, so far, it's caused cancer within a month for the 18 animal species it's been tested on. Wanna try it?"
What would you do?
See...the chemical companies don't give you that choice. Your only option is to avoid exposure. You have absolutely NO idea what their products may do to you.
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Doug Kanter wrote:

a good psychiatrist might be able to help you. WOOF!
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proven
populations
amounts.
had
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Me??? You're either very young, or you forgot to read the newspapers since 1960. Knucklehead. What makes you think yard chemicals are safe?
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Doug Kanter wrote:

You seem to be angry at half the world and jealous of the other half. Psychiatry can do wonders these days. Try it for your own good.
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since
Angry? How you are I feel about the sins of chemical companies is in NO way connected with the reality of what they do. I may be angry at the fact that GE has yet to take responsibility for what it did to the Hudson River. You may think it's not a problem. But, the crap they dumped is still there. Get it? Your misplaced faith in the company doesn't make it safe to eat the striped bass that are contaminated by the dumping.
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It's a troll, Doug, they always kick up around the end of the summer. Don't feed it.
--
Ann, Gardening in zone 6a
Just south of Boston, MA
  Click to see the full signature.
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Two points to add:
1) If you can't provide enough detail to be interesting, why bother posting a response, Ms. Ratgirl? (sarcasm assured here) :-)
2) This past spring, NPR ran a story about studies looking into why people in Japan, who have a relatively low rate of certain cancers, seem to lose their edge when they (meaning Japanese immigrants in general) have been here for a generation or two. The easy answer seemed to be diet, but the scientists interviewed put a lid on that idea for reasons I don't recall. What they suspect is....guess what? Chemicals.
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uses
The only truly organic method of clover control is hand pulling. I know, this is probably not the solution you were looking for but other than this method, the only effective control is through the use of specific herbicides. Not all herbicides recommended for use on turfgrass are effective - look for one that contains MCPP (mecoprop) or triclopyr. Products which are based on 2,4-D (Weed-B-Gone) are not effective on clover and avoid heavy use of dicamba around desirable plants as it can affect the roots of shrubs and trees. Timing of the use of these products is critical as well - clover is best approached during the spring or fall when growth is especially lush or the seeds are germinating. Temperatures should be below 80F and avoid using when rain is predicted within 24 hours.
Clover proliferates in lawns which experience compacted soils, are thin or are deficient in nitrogen or phosphorus. Once you have clover under control, keeping the lawn well aerated and healthy through the use of proper fertilization, watering and mowing techinques will help to prevent further infestation. Corn gluten meal is a safe and organic pre-emergent control that will revent weed seed germination as well as provide a source of needed nitrogen. Also, if you live in an area where cool season grasses comprise the lawn mix, allowing the lawn to go dormant in summer (no irrigation) will help supress clover, as it is not drought tolerant and will die without regular irrigation. The grass will return to its normal green and lush appearance with the return of fall rains.
You are correct to avoid overusing herbicides around children. Small children and pets are much more sensitive to herbicide contamination than are adults. But most common lawn herbicides breakdown fairly rapidly, so if you can keep the kids and pets off the lawn for a couple of days after application, you should be OK. Spray-on applications will be faster to metabolize and dissipate into the soil than granular applications. Runoff is typically not an issue with spray-on applications (like Weed-B-Gone), but is much more likely to occur with granular applications and products like weed'n feed.
BTW, upto the early 50's, white clover was often included in lawn seed mixes, as it was considered an attractive and beneficial addition to lawns :-))
pam - gardengal

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Quite a few ag extensions still suggest it as a cover crop, even for small home gardens which might lay bare for a period of time.
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