Katrina

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In article snipped-for-privacy@avoidant.org says...

FEMA and Homeland Security are a joke and this situation proves it. What's the point of dispatching buses for 25,000 people? Are they insane? If the buses can get in and out of the Superdome than I would have thought that people could walk the same path and get out too. Wouldn't it had been simpler to force everyone who could walk to walk and reserve the buses for those that can't? All they had to do is set up a spot along the interstate and turn it into a temporary tent city with generators, food, water, and lots and lots of portapotties that could be easily supplied. Point people to the Superdome and out to the tent city and make them walk. It is ludicrous that they had these people wait there for buses. One must wonder where all the billions that Homeland Security spends if they didn't even have a contingency plan for something everyone knew one day was going to happen. NOLA had a scare last year and everyone talked about the entire city flooding. And when it floods every single official had their head stuck firmly up their ass looking into the cameras like a deer caught in the headlights. They did virtually nothing for 3 days while these people sat at the Superdome without food, water, or toilets. What kind of idiots are running things down there?! Coming up with some sensible plan to get these people out isn't rocket science.
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Mark Anderson wrote:

After they get them out they will rebuild a city that is below sea level and will another day be a target for another hurricane.
--


Travis in Shoreline Washington


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opined:

Go back on the track "at least 4 days" before the hurricane hit and provide us please with the data which revealed to you that it would hit where it did, with the results that it had

That's the way it is set up to work; otherwise you would be bitching about the $$$ that the DHS was spending waiting for events to happen

Hog wash. They will be on station Sunday and the USS Bataan was in the gulf and has been supporting recovery ops since the onset.

And how do you know exactly what is needed until landfall occurs? You failed to note that the area was declared a disaster area before landfall---which enabled the response that was received---good or bad; had they waited it would have been later that it was

Roy www.virginianewssource.com
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I'm not quite sure what you are arguing, Roy. I fear that you're sadly misinformed. Here's a pdf of the letter of Louisiana Governor Blanco requesting immediate declaration of emergency at least 24 hours prior to landfall - the letter was delivered the morning of Sunday, August 28th. In the body of the letter, you will see that the Louisiana governor initiated the Lousiana emergency plan beginning on Friday, the 26th. She based that plan on National Weather Service predictions of a potential Louisiana landfall. By Saturday afternoon, the general landfall area of the hurricane was virtually certain. The federal government, particularly FEMA, is supposed to monitor those Hurricane reports and anticipate needs. It failed to do so. This is a catastrophic failure of FEMA and the Office of Homeland Security. It is an indictment of short-sighted cost-saving by the Bush Administration to pay for the Gulf War. FEMA as an agency was basically gutted to create the Department of Homeland Security. The focus of the agency went from disaster preparedness to terrorism preparedness. The National Guards of all states have been decimated by deployments to Iraq. People from foreign nations are watching our news broadcasts with open-jawed amazement. How could the head of FEMA and the head of Homeland Security have argued on TV interviews that there were NO people stranded at the New Orleans Convention Center on Thursday morning - until the interviewers literally turned them around to look at the TV pictures? With completely open air space and no wind danger from Tuesday, August 30 onward, why were there not continuous sorties of aircraft doing drops of essential supplies - especially water and food? And as devastated as the Mississippi coast was, the population base is much smaller than the New Orleans metropolitan area. (Perhaps 200,000 total vs. 1,000,000 or more) . There were air bases in Florida and Texas that were completely unaffected, from which these sorties could have been launched. Why were there no ships in Tampa Bay or Galveston Bay ready to be deployed the instant the hurricane passed? All I can say is, God help us all if there were a significant terrorist attack on any major city. I am LIVID. Our president needs to be held accountable. http://gov.louisiana.gov/Disaster%20Relief%20Request.pdf

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wrote:

"Friday, Aug. 26: At 11 p.m., Katrina is forecast to make landfall near New Orleans. (Not the 4 days before the original poster stated)
"Saturday, Aug. 27: President Bush declares a state of emergency in Louisiana. White House says FEMA officials are coordinating with authorities in Florida, Mississippi, Louisiana and Alabama, and have supplies ready. Authorities advise Gulf Coast evacuation.
"Sunday: Bush declares emergencies for Mississippi, Florida and Alabama. Evacuations ordered for New Orleans. Evacuation orders are also posted along the Mississippi and Alabama coasts, and in barrier islands of the Florida Panhandle. FEMA moves supplies from centers in Atlanta and Denton, Texas, to areas closer to where authorities think the storm will create a need. " http://www.sptimes.com/2005/09/03/Worldandnation/One_question_builds__.shtml

Which were where, and, more importantly, packaged for air drops?

If you have been following the TV as you say you have you already know that sorties were being flown, at least out of NAS Pensacola, to rescue folks---these continue.

Are you advocating we have a bigger Navy so that we can home-port ships all over the coasts to be ready in just in case case there is a disaster? I'm for the biggest Navy you can afford. I was attempting to respond to the O.P.s erroneous statements that it was going to take up to 2 weeks for the Navy to get there. And I will refer you to this interesting article re the military's performance in view of its relationship to FEMA: Red tape keeping much of military on sidelines http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/nationworld/2002468593_katmilitary03.html?syndication=rss&source=home.xml&items=6

I know you haven't fogotten 9/11

And I'm sure he and "they" will be. I wrote initially because I am in the news business and it bothers me when folks, like the O.P. come forth with these vast assertions of what everyone knew (knows), which, upon review, turn out to be half-vast statements of non-facts.
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4 days may have been an exaggeration, but it WAS 2 1/2 days before

This contradicts what you say below about having food and water prepackaged for air drops. I'm quite sure that you're correct and that they didn't have them ready- but why not?

See above. , August 30 onward, why were

According to the news sources and Bush's declaration above, the supplies were supposed to have been moved closer to the disaster site - which as far as I can ascertain, they were not - or at least with provision for delivery once they were moved.

Rescue yes, particularly by the coast guard - but NOT with water and food supplies - equally important when people have been herded into specific spaces and then confined there by martial law, after having been promised the above in 95 + temperatures. Ask any doctor in the world what the physiological response is to dehydration - particularly in extreme heat conditions. Football players drop dead of it routinely after 3-4 HOURS.

No, I'm saying that there were 8 naval bases along the gulf coast - 3 in the affected areas and 5 outside them. I'm assuming that any ships at the 3 affected bases were sent in the direction of the other bases when word was received about the anticipated landfall of the hurricane. If there were NO medical ships, aircraft carriers or other large vessels anywhere in the gulf coast, that doesn't make me feel as though my government has its priorities in the right place. It's not necessary to have hundreds - but one or two would be nice to protect one of the major coasts of our country.

http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/nationworld/2002468593_katmilitary03.html?syndication=rss&source=home.xml&items=6
I couldn't agree with this more. Whose job was it to cut through that red tape?

No, that's why I'm livid.

I remain skeptical. He doesn't have a history of owning up to mistakes, of punishing people responsible for mistakes, or for being honest about the financial cost (ie taxes) necessary to pay for his mistakes. After all, this is the president who said 2 days ago, "No one had any idea that the levees were vulnerable to breach" I wrote initially because I am in

I know that people exaggerate, and I'm glad that you are trying to keep them honest. But this WAS a catastrophe, and our response was slow and incredibly inadequate, which doesn't bode well for other disasters. It sounded as though you were disputing that part, which is why I jumped in.

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http://seattletimes.nwsource.com/html/nationworld/2002468593_katmilitary03.html?syndication=rss&source=home.xml&items=6
I remember the crippling blizzard that we experience in Ohio around 1976. Of course it was nothing on the scale of this disaster, but it was life threatening and shut down the entire state. The governor set up a command center and personally directed the emergency operation. He instructed stranded people on the interstates to break into closed rest areas and weigh stations to get shelter and water. He made periodic statement to the media. I think that is what Bush should have done. He should have convened all the cabinet members and military authorities in the situation room and authorized what ever it took to save lives. Damn the red tape. He had the ability direct the military to do what ever it takes. After all, he has no problem assuming authority to suspend civil rights, to sneak into homes to spy on people, to declare people "enemy combatants" and ship them into seclusion without even notifying their families. He diverted funds from the war in Afghanistan to prep for war in Iraq without any authority. Using the resources of the people to save lives is hardly a risky action. True leaders know when to act and assume risk, disregard criticism, and accept responsibility. This president chose to vacation, eat cake, strum his guitar, and press his failed quest to strip the last vestige of a safety net for the very same impoverished souls who were dispatched to their death due to his careless indifference.
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argued:

(nine actually, bases/stations/facilities. Several have no mission involving ships E.G. Pensacola is an Air Station, Gulfport is a CB Base, and others have a basic problem viz-a-viz ship basing---they are not ports and are not on the water)

You got that right `Substantial damage' reported at Naval Station Pascagoula http://www.centredaily.com/mld/centredaily/news/12555378.htm

Coast Guard's mission. Not Navy mission. Count their bases, and ships. They do a super job, but y'all allow them to be grossly unerfunded, year-after- year. But, please see the above story. That means that your requirements were met. Actually, the requirments were more fully met, not to protect the coasts, but to meet the pork barrel needs of Congressmen---"See all the money I'm bringing to you". You will note in the above story that Pascagoula has been nominated for closure. These remote home ports proved to be horribly expensive and a (ship) maintenance nightmare. Pascagoula endured in my mind because Trent Lott has more horse power than most, and because there is a private shipyard there that could help them (at great expense). As far as the homeports in the Gulf, there are also a grunch of mine sweeps in TX---great at what they do, very small, cluttered, and very short legs. http://www.navy.mil/navydata/ships/lists/homeport.asp

Not mine, nor the C.O. of any of those ships/units. My main purpose in addressing any of these issues is that that bashing the military is national sport for many. As a C.O. my job was to take whatever part of national policy was assigned to me and implement it. We had a deal, I didn't tell the then president how to run the country; he didn't tell me how to run my ship. If folks don't like national policy they should direct their comments to those folks who set them---Congress and the President. (How many of you sent letters/emails to them to not pass/sign the recent highway bill, which had billions (of your money) of pork in it? In fact---how many of you even bothered to vote in the last election?) Think---that money could have gone along way to help sort things out on the Gulf Coast---an effort now running between $#.5B-$.7B per day, for which we all will be taxed.. Remember. the government has no money of its own, they spend your money. Everybody here, take a step back, and sent your vitriol to them. http://www.virginianewssource.com/link-39.html I leave you with this: Sailors, Medics, Helos, Ships Join Katrina Relief Efforts http://www.news4jax.com/news/4921404/detail.html 30 starrin
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Since I missed the first poster to you, I didn't realize that he had bashed the military in your estimation. I'm not. I'm bashing the response to this disaster by all governmental parties involved- and if part of that was in not calling the military in soon enough, that blame has to be attached to the people whose duty it was to make that call. You talk a great deal about taxes and pork. Well, we, as a nation, have spent at least 7.5 trillion in 2005 dollars on the military in the past 25 years. That's $7,500,000,000,000 - an amount that eclipses by a factor of 30 that highway transportation bill (which I agree was a pork-fest) We deserve something back from THAT investment as well, a return more than tanks (or more likely unarmored Humvees) deserted in sandstorms in a disaster of a poorly planned war/peace/war in Iraq. The soldiers and sailors appear more than willing to help in this kind of natural disaster, if given the command. If the commander-in-chief is incompetent and has put incompetent people in charge of deploying the forces that were built with that 7.5 trillion dollars, their heads need to roll, in my opinion. And yes, I vote, and I write my congressmen, and my voice goes unheard nonetheless.
Gulfport is a CB . But, please see the above story. That

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Unfortunately, the rest of the world assumed that the richest most powerful nation on earth would be using those four days to prime-up its pre-planned emergency relief services, which we assumed you would have fully trained, practised and ready-to-go. We are completely horrified and uncomprehending at the sluggish unprepared and grossly inadequate response from your Govt.
Unfortunately that makes it even harder for countries outside to know how to help the victims. It's not as if you're some helpless rudderless third-world country where we can bring what's needed, wade in, take control, and start organising the emergency rescue so deperately needed. You've already got all the money, infrastructure, skills, water clothes food medecine etc right there in the untouched States but they aren't being put to use or delivered..and we just can't see, from here, what outsiders can do to make it happen.
Janet (UK)
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contains these words:

. It's not as if you're some helpless

Apparently we ARE rudderless.
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contains these words:

It's not the lack of a rudder that's causing the problem. It's the captain who hasn't a clue about what he's doing or any concept about 'real" people and their problems.
JPS
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contains these words:

I used to believe that. Now I think he is just evil.
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I think you're right. It's too easy to assume he's a retarded puppet of the same gangsterish powers that used Grampa Reagan as their alzheimered marionette, but that just lets Bush off the hook for causing the deaths of thousands upon thousands world wide. The bad decisions seem to be ones he personally makes even when those who'd like to pull his strings are trying to get him to do something else.
-paghat the ratgirl
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I will have to quibble with that. He is just retarded. Katrina has completed the remake of America's image abroad, which started with the war in Iraq. Surely they are coming to the same conclusions as posters here. I saw one foreign headline saying "the superpower defeated at home". They will fear our guns but not our brains.
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I think it is too easy to say that Bush is retarded. It lets him off without requiring any personal responsibility.
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personal responsibility is for grown ups.
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I guess you got me there! What was I thinking?
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Here's something to add to your thinking. If Katrina had hit Florida in a 4/5 category instead of a 1, dubya would have been down there bailing out Jeb boy in a flash. Don't forget that Florida, Jeb boy, and K. Harris gave dubya the presidency, and Jeb boy is the crown prince of the Republican party. It's how many electoral votes a state can deliver that matter in the end.
JPS
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