Ground Beef Recall Expanded

[dr-solo]

[dr-solo]

I was raised hunting animals (non-Jewish side of family) and fishing. I suddenly decided that if I wasnt going to eat it (squirrel full of pellets) or fish (dont like em) then I shouldnt kill them. I havent hunted or fished since I was 15 or so, the point I describe as the age at which my Jewish genes kicked in. Ingrid

On Thu, 04 Oct 2007 23:41:10 -0500, Charlie wrote: but if I am going to consume meat, I

[dr-solo]

[enigma]

Ferd Farkel wrote in news: [e-mail]:

cheap (comparatively), easy & it uses up a lot of cuts that most people nowadays don't want or even know what to do with. very few people want roasts (take too long for "busy cooks") & they have no clue what to do when confronted with anything besides a steak or ground beef. before fast food became widely available, there were very few steak houses, because there was nowhere for the other cuts to go. now it just gets ground up & sold as burger. lee

[enigma]

"R M. Watkin" wrote in news:47079b97 [e-mail]:

i've never seen the stunner used on the back of an animal's head. it, like the .22, is positioned in that X between the ears & eyes. the 'stunner' actually kills the animal instantly, so 'stunner' is a misnomer. we used these to kill animals when i was in college in the early 70s. i was an ag major. lee

[Jangchub]

You would be morbidly obese if you overate what the food pyramid suggests. If you overate apples you'd also be obese. Proper caloric intake has no bearing on where the calories come from. You can get the same brain of a fish eater by using any form of omega 3 oils, also found in flaxseed meal and oils...which must be refridgerated. Gel pills are not that effective on overall health.

Personally, the whole "brain food" myth came from parents trying to coax their kids into eating fish.

Too much prote>The food pyramid was constructed by non-scientists. It does not reflect the reality

[Billy]

The new food pyramid was constructed by big agra, who tell you that all foods fit in a healthy diet, no matter how bad they are for you. It all depends on you being an intelligent consumer (It's your fault.). The agricultural lobby has tied-up the FDA and they will not tell you to eat less fat. Five serving of fruits and vegetables a day will go a long way towards making you a healthier person.

Although, nutritionists worry about the impact of methyl mercury from lake and sea food.

I too would like to know the connection between dietary and serum cholesterol. I don't know but my observation is that dietary cholesterol is unimportant. Serum cholesterol comes from saturated fats.

Thanks for the discussion,

[dr-solo]

I never heard the "brain food myth", never heard of that. I am talking about theories proposed by anthropologists and "paleonutritionists" or whatever. It is a very hot area of discussion in that area of science, which one of the physical changes came first, which was the first change leading to h*mo sapiens. the physical traits are upright walking, larger brains ... and the archeologists are finding the association of "h*mo almost" with lots and tons of shells and nearly all the sites are right next to the sea.

Of course, high quality protein is essential for good brain development in children today as well.

I am not aware of any science research show>Personally, the whole "brain food" myth came from parents trying to

[dr-solo]

and Fat: A Severe Case of Mistaken Consensus

[Jangchub]

My point in making the distinction between empty calories and not empty calories had more to do with the absolute nutritional health of the body than it did to show that fats were not good for us.

I think there have also been studies done where genetically tested individuals with no obesity at all have high cholesterol/triglicerides as part of their basic make-up.

If we eat nothing but sugar and fat and stay under the allotted calorie count which determines how rapidly we lose, gain or maintain weight, we will have malnutrition. That's why I said good/bad calories.

[FragileWarrior]

Cheryl Isaak wrote in news:C32BA9C2.6F12E% [e-mail]:

Thanks, Cheryl. The transplants are doing well and beginning to take off. I'm debating whether to winter them inside or let them stay out in a western NY winter.

[Billy]

A book to start conversations in any event, however in this world where the FDA or USDA are not allowed to make food recommendations because of various marketing-groups financial pressure on members of congress, it may be too soon to say that the world of nutrition is turned up-side down. I'm not saying that Mr. Taubes is a fellow traveler but let us all remember that Exxon-Mobil was paying up to $10,000 for favorable articles to be published. So as we contemplate Mr. Taubes book, let's take it with a grain of salt, before we declare the new millennium.

Apparently Mr. Taubes makes an argument that all calories are not equal (they are) i.e. fat calories can be counted differently than carb calories. Please keep in mind that each gram of carb or protein contain

4 kcals of energy, whereas each gram of fat (liquid or solid) contains 9 kcals of energy. A calorie is a calorie regardless of its' provenance.

While dietary cholesterol may not be a problem, it is still my understanding that saturated fats that are solid at room temperature, elicit a serum cholesterol response. As the beneficiary of by-pass surgery, I'll take a wait and see attitude about saturated fats.

Mr. Taubes is reported to show that not all meat eating cultures suffer from coronary heart disease as western culture does. This is addressed in Michael Pollans book "Dilemma" as the difference between grass raised and grain raised animals, no matter be they beef or salmon. The grass raised beef and wild salmon having higher levels of omega-3 fatty acids that the feed lot beef or the farmed salmon. He poses the question of which makes a better purchase, the cheap food or the food with omega-3, beta-carotenes, and vitamin E; quantity or quality? In the wild, humanity as hunter-gathers had an omega-6 to omega-3 ratio of 1 to 1 in their nutrition. In post civilized culture today, the ratio is 10 to 1, which directly leads to more cardiovascular disease.

Before breaking out the bacon rinds, you may want to consider that more veggies, a little less protein, and a big dollop of exercise will help keep you stay on the right side of the grass.

dr-solo, I'll look forward to your review of Mr. Taubes book.

[dr-solo]

Have you done a vetting of Mr. Taubes? I havent had the time, but it seems to me he makes a living out of goring the ox of the powers that be. He takes delight in debunking "popular" and maybe junk science. I would be very surprised he is a shill for the pig farmers of America

"Please keep in mind that each gram of carb or protein contain

As my normal eating patterns are high protein/low carb (I am allergic to wheat, corn) I can say that a bit of fat is going to turn off my hunger center while a bit of carbs is going to spike my glucose, spike insulin, and I will be hungry in a half hour.

The problem is you believe that decreasing cholesterol is going to save you from a heart attack... unhappily, it wont. There is no scientific proof. High cholesterol is a symptom of damage in the arteries brought on by ???? most likely infectious disease (like chlamydia, google chlamydia heart disease Madison Wisconsin) The link to heart disease is all carbs that cause a spike in insulin. Maybe the carbs cause allergic reaction in the immune cells of the arteries (notice that veins dont get clogged with plaque, why not? altho they do get inflamed).

solid margarine was the "answer" to "fear of butter". dont use margarine anymore. use natural fats like butter or oils.

The point is this. I dont eat as much as typical Americans, period. I sure dont eat as much meat as typical Americans no matter what diet they are on unless they are vegan. Yesterday for lunch I had a small chicken thigh, for dinner I had salad with "things" one of which was the sliced remainder of the stuffed pork loin I made the night before. Not one of those huge restaurant salads either. We mostly eat chicken and eggs and cheese. I try to remember to use beef and pork once a week. I could give up pork but I do like a sprinkle of bacon on my cottage cheese in the morning. I dont get the pork rind thing every time they do those reports on Atkins. I dont eat pork rinds.. gag.

I am never hungry. I have to remind myself to eat breakfast cause I forget I will be light headed later if I dont. Even tho my husband "cheats" by eating raisins, grapes and other high sugar fruit AND trail mix, and candy, and .... , his "cholesterol" is fine, his triglycerides are extremely low, his HDL high. My "cholesterol" is very high. But I have just done a round of anti-candida meds to get rid of a chronic infection with candida. I have to take very high bolus of antibiotics when I get my teeth cleaned every 4 months (due to prolapsed mitral valve) and I think this is the cause. I destroyed my good bacteria. Thankfully, the dentist just told me I DONT have to take that antibiotic anymore.

There is NO REAS>>

[Omelet]

I experience the same thing. High carb meals make me ravenous and prone to overeat.

Low carb dieting turns off my hunger and keeps ME in better control.

Not all calories are equal. ;-)

[Billy]

Just call me sensitive but my recent exposure to the term "junk science" is in connection with people who don't believe in evolution, or that human activities are responsible for acid rain, ozone holes, or global warming,e.g. it's the kind of phrase that Rush Limbaugh would use. I'm not tarring you with that brush, just signaling that I lose some objectivity when I see it.

I'm not accusing Mr. Taubes of being a mercenary who obscures nutritional knowledge or promotes high profit products for Big Agra. He has had some impressive reviews and some, less so. I'm just cautioning a suspension of judgement until we have digested what he has to say.

One knock on him is, according to the reviewer (GINA KOLATA, October 7,

2007, ". . . the problem with a book like this one, which goes on and on in great detail about experiments new and old in areas ranging from heart disease to cancer to diabetes, is that it can be hard to know what has been left out. For example, Taubes argues at length that people get fat because carbohydrates in their diet drive up the insulin level in the blood, which in turn encourages the storage of fat. His conclusion: all calories are not alike. A calorie of fat is much less fattening than a calorie of sugar."

I don't believe cholesterol causes heart attacks but I am impressed that the Japanese had so few, when they ate their traditional diet. Now that they eat like Americans, they seem to be dying like Americans. That's not belief, that's empiricism.

At present my choice of diet tends to the high veggie, relatively low protein diet (stir fries with some meat and no rice). Additionally, I'm trying to increase the amount of omega-3 in my diet by incorporating purslane, where ever I can. An exception is made for Sat. nights which, chez nous, is known as bone night, when we have barbecued, smoked, pork, spare ribs, and the dogs and cats get to clean up the scraps.

Of course, if I can get game meat, then all bets are off until I am definitively told that it is bad for me.

[Ferd Farkel]

innews: [e-mail]:

I can usually get chuck cheaper than hamburger. As I say, it improves most recipes that call for the latter. Chili con carne is a good example (*especially* when you substitute beer for water -- gives it an agreeable sweet taste with no identifiable hint of beer). Excellent served over rice. Be adventurous with the beans. Don't just throw in a can of kidney beans -- too boring. Throw in a can each of garbanzos and black beans, too.

Cook it just like ground beef. Sear it in oil with black pepper and a teaspoon of chopped garlic to marry the flavors early. No great culinary skills needed beyond turning on the stove and stirring.

How much is it from how well McDonalds has us trained from childhood?

[Billy]

And McDonald knows. They get their flavor from smoke stacks in New Jersey.

[Charlie]

How very true this is and we need to take this into account when designing our garden strategy.

Albert Szent-Gyorgyi, the Hungarian biochemist and Nobel Prize winner for medicine once said, "Water is life's matter and matrix, mother and medium. There is no life without water."

We depend on water for survival. It circulates through our bodies and the land, replenishing nutrients and carrying away waste. It is passed down like stories over generations -- from ice-capped mountains to rivers to oceans.

Historically water has been a facet of ritual, a place of gathering and the backbone of community..........continued at above link.

[Charlie]

Ok, this sounds really good, but I can find no references to anything like it, so I found some cranberry chutney recipes I am going to put together and build one that sounds like what I want.

This weekend will be my annual chutney making time, I love chutney, though the rest of the dunderbunnies in my family aren't too enthused.

Ha......all the more for me!

Charlie, now dreaming of a crisp fall morning with hot coffee and all that goes with the hunt.

[enigma]

Ferd Farkel wrote in news: [e-mail]:

i wouldn't know. there weren't fast food franchises around until i was in my teens (that is, they hadn't really expanded so much. they existed, just not where i lived). i have cookbooks from WWII era & earlier which ask for cuts of meat i *never* see in stores. i can only vaguely remember cutting them in meat cutting class in 1972. i'm afraid i didn't pay close attention since i took the class while in my vegetarian phase. OTOH, i have a 7 year old & hamburgers are way down on his list of foods he'd prefer. i think the current top of the list is artichokes. he loooooves artichokes. lee