Global warming and your garden

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wrote:

Sounds like the evacuation and recovery plan for New Orleans:o(
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Billy
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as we speak. The tipping point is less than a decade away.
Persephone
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Remember that you said that when the glacier rolls over your house.
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Maybe we should tell the EPA. hey just listed the polar bear as an endangered species because of polar warming. Actually, glaciers should be on the same list. Glaciers are fast disappearing which is bas news because instead of reflecting sunlight back into space, when the glacier is gone the sunlight (heat) gets absorbed by the planet and accelerates the heating.
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Billy
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From what I read lately we should be more worried about global cooling.
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wrote:

You need to improve your reading material. What does disappearing ice sheets in Greenland and Antarctica (not to mention the attendant 200' rise in ocean levels) suggest to you? Heating or cooling? Hmmm?
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Billy
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Billy wrote:

What did it mean during the time of Eric the Red and the other Viking explorers. It ain't the first time it has happened.
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Hot again, cold again, the weather goes up and down. Freeman Dyson is indeed a heavy weight and a man to be listened to. Poor Eric the Red went during the good times and his colony survived 450 years and then got stranded in the cold. This isn't my response. Steven Hawking is a very heavy weight. Since the February 2004 release of the scientist statement speaking out against political interference in science and calling for the restoration of scientific integrity to policy making, a steady stream of scientists has expressed their concern by adding their signatures to the statement. Initially signed by 62 leading scientists, the statement now bears the signature of more than 12,000 scientists from all 50 states and several U.S. territories, including 52 Nobel laureates, 62 National Medal of Science winners, 194 members of the National Academies of Science, and science advisors to both Republican and Democratic presidents dating back to Eisenhower. http://www.ucsusa.org/scientific_integrity/interference/scientist-stateme nt.html Gingrich saw to the dismantling of the Office of Technological Assessment which advised Congress. Then Jim Tozzi and John Graham promoted the Data Quality Act which effectively did away with scientific modeling, even though we still use it to assess nuclear war head effectiveness. The Republican War on Science by Chris Moony, <(Amazon.com product link shortened) />/ ref=pd_bbs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid11089801&sr=1-1> and you may want to take a look at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Climate_change
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Billy
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It wasn't the industrial burning of fossil fuel that lead Eric and his crew out to Greenland. And with Eric and his crew in mind, it can be argued that if they had changed some of their old habits and adopted some of the Inuits strategies for staying alive, instead of the stiff-necked insistence on being good Norwegians, they probably would have survived.
Read "Collapse: How Societies Choose to Fail or Succeed" by Jared Diamond, for a fascinating account of Eric's Norse colony. (Amazon.com product link shortened) 6/ref=pd_bbs_sr_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid11145979&sr=1-1
The great preponderance of scientists find "Global Warming" credible. It isn't a gamble we can afford to lose.
The arguments against "Global Warming" are the same arguments that were used against the dangers of cigarettes, acid rain, and ozone depletion (chloroflurohydrocarbons: CFCs), i.e. you can't prove it using the scientific method of repeatable results, yet we now know that cigarettes are a health hazard for the smoker and anyone around the smoker, and that acid rain, and the diminished ozone layer (protects us from ultraviolet radiation) are man made events.
Better people than I have tried to present the case for "Global Warming". Some people, usually people who don't want to stop polluting, or make money from fossil fuels, don't want to believe it, and will support voices against it.
January 3, 2007
Scientists' Report Documents ExxonMobil's Tobacco-like Disinformation Campaign on Global Warming Science Oil Company Spent Nearly $16 Million to Fund Skeptic Groups, Create Confusion
WASHINGTON, DC, Jan. 3-A new report from the Union of Concerned Scientists offers the most comprehensive documentation to date of how ExxonMobil has adopted the tobacco industry's disinformation tactics, as well as some of the same organizations and personnel, to cloud the scientific understanding of climate change and delay action on the issue. According to the report, ExxonMobil has funneled nearly $16 million between 1998 and 2005 to a network of 43 advocacy organizations that seek to confuse the public on global warming science.
"ExxonMobil has manufactured uncertainty about the human causes of global warming just as tobacco companies denied their product caused lung cancer," said Alden Meyer, the Union of Concerned Scientists' Director of Strategy & Policy. "A modest but effective investment has allowed the oil giant to fuel doubt about global warming to delay government action just as Big Tobacco did for over 40 years."
http://www.ucsusa.org/news/press_release/ExxonMobil-GlobalWarming-tobacco .html
We can't wait 40 years. We should have started in the last century.
Please note the use of citations to support an argument.
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Billy
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In article

Drove a bit crazy for a while till I could remember "Arctic Dreams". No need to read the book but I think you would love it.
Sort of thinking that scientists become lobbyist in this weird media image suggesting world.
The reviews of Arctic Dreams will entice but readers seem to be cast aside yet yet yet hope. Incoherent ...perhaps calling for a chant.
<(Amazon.com product link shortened)>
Notice Lopez has a Indian children's book too.
Bill
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wrote:
[...]

[...]
One of my favorite livres de chevet (bedside books). Know it inside out. Time to re-read...!
Persephone
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wrote:
[...]

[...]
Exactly the same argument has been made for the British explorers who failed over and over to find the Northwest Passage. Instead of the "stiffnecked insistence on being good [Britishers]" they might have survived. Bu, one after another the expeditions -- notably the last Franklin one -- failed, and the most of the explorers died because (excuse this, amigas/os across the pond) in that era, post-Napoleonic Wars,* triumphalist Britain thought the sun shone out of their you-know-what. In their missionary deal to Christianize the "savages", they failed to notice that the "savages" had survived very nicely for thousands of years by adapting their food, clothing, and hunting methods to the local conditions.
*Post Napoleonic Wars, there were a lot of surplus naval officers on half-pay, who had no other way to find glory, so they signed up for these expeditions to find the Northwest Passage, a more direct way to the riches of the Orient.
Ironically, had they waited a few centuries till climate change really kicked in, they could have had an ice-free route through the Northwest Passage in this year of 2008. But by the time the Passage was traversed in 1906, it was no longer needed economically, the Panama Canal was completed in 1914.
It was a very good Norwegian indeed, my hero Roald Amundsen, who, with his small, efficient ship and experienced crew [antithesis of Franklin's huge Navy-style expedition] befriended the "savages". They taught him how to live off the land beween 1903 and 1906 -- the year he finished the traverse of the Northwest Passage.
The only "Brit" that I know of, and he was a card-carrying Scot who wasn't too good to learn from the locals, was the great explorer and mapper, Dr. John Rae.
Persephone
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In article

Billy.
He is right.
Global warming leads to ice ages.
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Peace! Om

"Human nature seems to be to control other people
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wrote:

As I with a feeble mind looks at this stuff. The increase of heat has caused much of the ice about to melt. The recently melted ice no longer reflects energy back so it warms things up a bit. Then why the cool spring? Well the ice that melted flows into the ocean where the salt content is lowered. No big deal but the ocean as a heat sink is reduced hence wider shifts in temperature fluctuations.
Bill
Next URL is the devil Al Gore
<http://www.ted.com/index.php/talks/view/id/243
Next Url is the best we got
<http://www.whrc.org/resources/online_publications/warmi <ng_earth/>
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In article

I'm Sorry but this url seems to take us to a larger agenda.
This may be more to our topic.
<http://whrc.org/carbon/index.htm
Bill
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In article

Mistake here.
<http://www.whrc.org/resources/online_publications/warming_earth/
Bill
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wrote:

Global warming leads to Ice Ages.
Watch the movie "The Day After Tomorrow".
It's scientifically accurate.
Seriously.
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Peace! Om

"Human nature seems to be to control other people
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In fact, the respected magazine Science has reviewed this Pentagon report and the alleged scientific support for The Day After Tomorrow and concludes that "it is highly unlikely that global warming will lead to a widespread collapse" of the Gulf Stream, and
"it is safe to say that global warming will not lead to the onset of a new Ice Age".
In Nature, another highly-respected scientific journal, a researcher finds that halting the Gulf Stream would be impossible, arguing that "the only way to produce an ocean circulation without the Gulf Stream would be to turn off the wind system or stop the Earth's rotation, or both."
Now, although it is not going to kill us the day after tomorrow, global warming certainly is a reality. It is caused at least partly by mankind's use of fossil fuels. The effects will be predominantly adverse - although high-latitude nations might prosper in a warmer world, tropical countries will have to deal with more heat-days, altered precipitation and higher sea-levels. So what is wrong with using a piece of popular entertainment to campaign for action to save people from that? As the Nasa research oceanographer William Patzert says: "The science is bad, but perhaps it's an opportunity to crank up the dialogue on our role in climate change."
http://www.telegraph.co.uk/opinion/main.jhtml?xml=/opinion/2004/05/09/do0 903.xml&sSheet=/portal/2004/05/09/ixportal.html
It would be futile for me to try and refute the "nay-sayers" of "Global Warming", as is common in science and nature, there is contradictory evidence, some from erroneous measurements, some from oddities that can happen over a 500 million year of the geological record. Most of the quibbling comes from the use of models as predictors of future events. Models use hundreds of presumptions (premises) and not everyone can agree on the same presumptions.
The other argument is that science isn't science unless you can do it in a lab and get reproducible results. Obviously modeling the spread of a contagious disease, the effectiveness of a nuclear war head design. or the interaction of solar radiation variations and greenhouse gas concentrations can't be done in a lab but they can be approximated by computer models. The vast majority of the physical scientists believe that "Global Warming" is a fact but dither on putting a time table to it. The warm water passage that is developing in the Arctic, the melting of the ice sheets in Greenland and Antartica, coupled with the dramatic decrease in size of the worlds glaciers have many scientists on edge and they are talking of tipping points were the heating will be come irreversible leading to hellish repercussions as imagined by Steven Hawking http://www.usatoday.com/tech/science/2006-06-22-hawking-warming_x.htm and others http://www.sciam.com/article.cfm?chanID=sa006&colID=1&articleID 037A5D- A938-150E-A93883414B7F0000
Now you may say that this is an alarmist attitude to take, but if we act and "Global Warming" doesn't happen, then we look silly.
If we don't act, and "Global Warming" is real, which again, most scientists believe is true, it could lead to another mass extinction, including humanity.
Which bet would you rather lose?
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Billy
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In article

Exactly. ;-)
The thing is, is it a normal, cyclical anomaly or is it really our fault?
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Peace! Om

"Human nature seems to be to control other people
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On Sun, 18 May 2008 20:50:58 -0500, Omelet wrote:

Even if we are not causing global warming, we are killing the planet.
It is almost like the media is constantly reminding us of this overheating so we will forget about the other ways we are hurting the earth: land overuse, water diversion, recreational vehicles, factory farms, disposable everything, fertilizer, pesticides, herbicides, medicines, paints, solvents, logging... need I go on.
stonerfish
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