Energy, health care, agriculture, climate change, global outbreaks like swine flu

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http://www.democracynow.org/2009/5/14/omnivores_dilemma_author_michael_po llans_new
Energy, health care, agriculture, climate change, global outbreaks like swine flu. What do all of these topics have in common? Food. Thats right. None of these issues can really be tackled without addressing some of the fundamental problems of the food system and the American diet.
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- Billy
"For the first time in the history of the world, every human being
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People with simple answers never understand the problems.
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Can I get a citation on that?
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- Billy
"For the first time in the history of the world, every human being
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The moderator wrote:

Let's try some different words.
The way that food is grown, processed and transported is a major contemporary issue in the Western world, it is not unique to America.. The apparent cheapness and abundance of food conceals real environmental and social costs in its production and unintended negative consequences that have the potential to become more significant in the near future. The system that puts food on the table and the way many people view food (or ignore the issue) is not sustainable and must change.
David
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You want a simple solution? Stop eating - then we will not have to put up with your whinging.
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In article

Your insult lost a lot of its' impact with the missed spelling. Bwahahahahahaha. Well, back to wining and dining. Bwahahahaha Remember, for all your pollution needs, Mon$anto will be there for you.
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- Billy
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Your credibility lost any repect we may have given it by your not knowing my spelling was correct and your grammar was not. Please learn the correct position of the possesive apostrophe.
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In article

Well, in this case the possessive pronoun does't take an apostrophy. Eats, Shoots & Leaves: The Zero Tolerance Approach to Punctuation by Lynne Truss (Amazon.com product link shortened) 038/ref=sr_1_1?ie=UTF8&s=books&qid42339470&sr=1-1 pg. 40.
Bwahahahahaha. I just love doing that. Bwahahahahaha.
Me? Have credibility? Shirley you jest, I'm just the pointing finger, like this one, see?
Don't you have a book to color or something?
--

- Billy
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In article

Small minds get lost in the details. Not their fault as educate is faulty. Think like this a mantra of sorts. None left behind just pass the hell with understanding. I really do not how to deal with issues like this aside from example. Real work.....
Bill educare too bring out a vision...
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Garden in shade zone 5 S Jersey USA

Not all who wander are lost.
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wrote:

.....*****SNERT....snark*** What the hell jsut flew up my nose and awakened me?
You're slow with the fly swatter, Billy. Crap, gonna have to install a hook under me log to hold me own flyswat.
Harruummphhh! Damned annoyances. zzzzzzzzz
Charlie
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That's odd about "the way you're raising pigs in America today creates a perfect environment for the generation of new flu pandemics", subsequent: "Oh, the industry response and the media response, by and large, is not to pay attention to that part of the story." Guess I'm paying attention to the wrong national TV channel as they said just that. Maybe they have more air time for such things as they don't spend an inordinate amount of time doing politically motivated ridicules...
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Dave



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"Dioclese" <NONE> wrote:

It seems with the SciAm article http://www.scientificamerican.com/article.cfm?id=civilization-food-shorta ges that Charlie posted, taken with CAFOs breeding new diseases (from the Pollan interview), maybe we should look to reduce our meat consumption and spread out the area in which animals are raised to avoid the need for antibiotic treated animals which can harbor resistant bacteria, and easily transmit viruses.
What ridicules are you referring to?
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- Billy
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What has that have to do with the website you posted originally? Nothing regarding the matter that I just ATTEMPTED and evidently failed to convey to you..

I'd rather not discuss the obvious since you refuse to do so by side-tracking.
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"Dioclese" <NONE> wrote:

Well, aren't we in a snit today? Ridicule was side-tracking? You brought up the subject. The subject which I posted about our animal gulags as breeding grounds for human diseases. Treat the animals poorly and it comes back to bite you in the ass.
Then the is the under reported story, that the H1N1 virus had escaped from a lab.
"According to a recent report (Bloomberg, May 12, 2009) which was barely publicised, a prominent scientistdirectly involved in the development of Tamiflu points to the possibility that the H1N1 strain resulted from lab experimentation or vaccine production. According to professor Adrian Gibbs of the Australian National University (ANU), the virus which escaped from a lab, was the direct product of a laboratory experiment by the company which produces Tamiflu. It could be a mistake that occurred at a vaccine production facility or the virus could have jumped from a pig to another mammal or a bird before reaching humans, he said. (Ibid) There have been several previous unconfirmed reports on the issue. Professor John Oxford of St. Bart's and the Royal London Hospital contends that the 1957 H1N1 pandemic probably started when it escaped from a lab (National Public Radio,May 4, 2009). While the findings of Professor Gibbs require further investigation, they, nonetheless, raise the broader issue of transmission out of a laboratory, not to mention the underlying geographic location of a laboratory.The WHO is investigating the findings of Professor Gibbs." http://www.globalresearch.ca/index.php?context=va&aid 622
If you want a conspiracy, you might look at Donald Rumsfeld who owned stock in the company that developed Tamiflu, and he continued to hold Tamiflu stock during his tenure as Secretary of Defense, in clear violation of the law that required him to divest himself of the stock. Cheney (Halliburton) never divested either. What do you think the chances are that their actions benefited their portfolios performances?
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- Billy
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wrote:

Hmmmm.....what is the shelf life of Tamiflu?
Five years, from what I read.
When was the global fiasco over avian flu that prompted the manufacture of a gazilllion doses of Tamiflu. A gaziliion doses that weren't used for a pandemic that didn't materialize, even though we recently supposedly had a major effup in Europe with a vaccine containing live virus H5N1? Hmmmmmm.......
Hmmmmm.......wonder how much Tamiflu, from that manufacture, has been sold recently, in order to deal with the, uh, supposed outbreak of this funky strain of "swine flu", a strain that carries some interesting dna.
Four years ago I was forced to go to the doc concerning cellulitis that I developed in my elbow. I've had it before and it is a serious deal. In the past, keflex (cephalosporins) were administered IM to infiltrate with an oral course. This last time I couldn't get the effing doc to use that. I ended up with a shot of Rocephen in my ass, a long way from the elbow and a scrip for.....tada.....ciprofloxicin, of which a gazillion doses had been manufactured for the supposed terrorist anthrax debacle. BTW, I reacted very badly to that shit and so did my sister in law who had cipro used on her after surgery. It damn near killed her. She had to be transferred to Bigtown Hosp for a week.
Whadda ya think, Billy. Concern for the public health?
As Galileo said, "All truths are easy to understand once they are discovered; the point is to discover them."
Charlie
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recognition. The corporate press is rigged. That is the one thing that both the left and the right agree on.

According to Naomi Klein, "Before he reentered government, Rumsfeld was so convinced that he was on to a hot new industry that he helped found several private investment funds specializing in biotechnology and pharmaceuticals. These companies are banking on an apocalyptic future of rampant disease, one in which governments are forced to buy, at top dollar, whatever lifesaving products the private sector has under patent."
These, like Tamiflu, will most likely be developed on grants funded by taxpayers.
At least we will be getting something for the money, unlike our present scenario.
You think Rummy's has an idea where all this is headed? Does Rummy gamble?
--

- Billy
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wrote:

Is this from "Shock Doctrine"?...on my list anyway.

Of course. Public interest and all that, eh?

Yeah, right. Cui bono?

Rummy and his ilk do not gamble lightly. You have a good idea where this is headed.... you can bet your droopy ass Rummy and crew *know* where this is headed.
Charlie
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--

- Billy
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This is the kind of misinformation produced by people with an "agenda".
Recombinant forms of influenza like "swine flu" are the results of human - animal interaction of a very close sort. In order for this to happen both must be able to be infected with the virus (like influenza) and the humans and animals have to be in close contact at the time of the infection, either sneezing in each others faces, or, since influenza is shed in the saliva, nasal secretion or FECES the human can also by hand transfer the virus to their own mouth (inhale), nose or eyes, all portals of entry.
In a well run big or factory pig farm (or chicken farm) the workers are required to change into and wear special "clean" suits complete with bootie covers, masks, gloves, hoods and even eye protection. The reason for this is to prevent humans from walking in and/or passing their bacteria and viruses and microbes to the pigs, and, after working they clean up before they leave so they dont track anything out. The cleanup of the feces and urine is done automatically (large amounts which can really foul the environment if not handled properly. Enforcement depends on state). Feeding antibiotics, BTW, has absolutely nothing to do with viruses. Hogs are housed in buildings which limit the entrance of "wild type" bacteria and viruses, mostly by preventing outside disease carrying animals from getting in to the areas so they are much more likely to NOT have disease and much more likely to be healthy (stress aside). A healthy pig will produce large litters, will put on weight and go to market faster. Everything is done to maximize big healthy pigs going to market. I am sure if classical or rock music encouraged growth, they would pipe this in to the barns as well. This is what is typically seen in the US.
In contrast the farms I worked on during the summers of my youth (grandparents and friends) the pigs were out in a pen or field mixing it up with disease carrying wild life. I didnt have much to do with pigs cause I was told to STAY OUT OF THE PIG PENS as they might go after me (pigs eat flesh with relish, BTW). These are not cute little pet pigs. And there is a much higher chance of these pigs carrying diseases that can be transmitted to humans as well.
And then there are the pig factories that have gone to Mexico do so to AVOID the environmental requirements and are flushing, I am sure, the urine and feces right out the "back door". They may have lax enforcement of sanitation within the farms, they certainly have more diseased wild animals (and biting insects to carry disease) in the area and health standards for the workers may be nonexistent along with "time off for being ill". Local labor is cheap and I am sure they make no effort to instruct their workers in health standards, etc.
INgrid Somewhere between zone 5 and 6 tucked along the shore of Lake Michigan on the council grounds of the Fox, Mascouten, Potawatomi, and Winnebago
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On May 15, 3:21pm, snipped-for-privacy@wi.rr.com wrote:

Surely you are not trying to tell us that some business men are greedy and seek to circumvent the regulations? Some of us had noticed that first from the finance industry and more recently from the government industry.
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