Effective method to prevent emerald ash borer

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Treelady, et, Al.
The only reason you find "Symplastless" to have a good understanding of trees is that you are ignorant.
Note that I stated "ignorant" and not stupid. My statement is not an insult, but rather a logical reply based on your input.
It is obvious that none of the rest of you have enough experience with Emerald Ash Borer (EAB) to offer advice or experience with the critter.
So, instead this thread becomes a fury of insults. How ridiculously selfish.
I am the only one who has offered any positive information about this topic, with the exception of the person who started this thread - and that person was *NOT* "Symplastless".
Just because "Symplastless" has a "good understanding of trees" (a statement coming from someone ("Treelady") who may or may not have credentials), doesn't mean he knows anything about EAB.
His offer that healthy trees respond more vigorously to fend off disease and pathogens as a response to an EAB infection speaks volumes to his ignorance of the matter.
"D. Staples", a forester in the SE *IS* educated, as is "Joe" (a forester in the NE.) There are other professional people who serve the posters on this newsgroup as well. We all have paid our dues serving the public, serving private and group land ownerships and acquiring a degree from different universities.
This is something that Keslick ("Symplastless") has *NOT* done.
...and his lack of knowledge on the subject matter, along with his self-marketing is a typical combination of a scam artist.
THIS is why I suggested to the original poster to simply ignore him.
I'd recommend that advice to my colleague D. Staples once again too.
(Note to Don, cheap entertainment yes - but there are bigger bangs for the buck so to speak).
As to you other faux geniuses out there, (e.g. "Billy Rose"), please take the mensa test and see how you score. I suspect that you will not fare as well as you think.
Regards, Geoff
Treelady wrote:
"I find Symplastless to have a good understanding of trees, theier > biology and appropriate care. To ignore him is to dismiss the > teachings of Alex Shigo- anyone claiming to understand or know about > trees without due regard for Shigo's work is one to be taken with a > pinch of salt."

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Treelady, et, Al.
The only reason you find "Symplastless" to have a good understanding of trees is that you are ignorant.
Note that I stated "ignorant" and not stupid. My statement is not an insult, but rather a logical reply based on your input.
It is obvious that none of the rest of you have enough experience with Emerald Ash Borer (EAB) to offer advice or experience with the critter.
So, instead this thread becomes a fury of insults. How ridiculously selfish.
I am the only one who has offered any positive information about this topic, with the exception of the person who started this thread - and that person was *NOT* "Symplastless".
Just because "Symplastless" has a "good understanding of trees" (a statement coming from someone ("Treelady") who may or may not have credentials), doesn't mean he knows anything about EAB.
His offer that healthy trees respond more vigorously to fend off disease and pathogens as a response to an EAB infection speaks volumes to his ignorance of the matter.
"D. Staples", a forester in the SE *IS* educated, as is "Joe" (a forester in the NE.) There are other professional people who serve the posters on this newsgroup as well. We all have paid our dues serving the public, serving private and group land ownerships and acquiring a degree from different universities.
This is something that Keslick ("Symplastless") has *NOT* done.
...and his lack of knowledge on the subject matter, along with his self-marketing is a typical combination of a scam artist.
THIS is why I suggested to the original poster to simply ignore him.
I'd recommend that advice to my colleague D. Staples once again too.
(Note to Don, cheap entertainment yes - but there are bigger bangs for the buck so to speak).
As to you other faux geniuses out there, (e.g. "Billy Rose"), please take the mensa test and see how you score. I suspect that you will not fare as well as you think.
Regards, Geoff
Treelady wrote:
"I find Symplastless to have a good understanding of trees, theier > biology and appropriate care. To ignore him is to dismiss the > teachings of Alex Shigo- anyone claiming to understand or know about > trees without due regard for Shigo's work is one to be taken with a > pinch of salt."

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Treelady, et, Al.
The only reason you find "Symplastless" to have a good understanding of trees is that you are ignorant.
Note that I stated "ignorant" and not stupid. My statement is not an insult, but rather a logical reply based on your input.
It is obvious that none of the rest of you have enough experience with Emerald Ash Borer (EAB) to offer advice or experience with the critter.
So, instead this thread becomes a fury of insults. How ridiculously selfish.
I am the only one who has offered any positive information about this topic, with the exception of the person who started this thread - and that person was *NOT* "Symplastless".
Just because "Symplastless" has a "good understanding of trees" (a statement coming from someone ("Treelady") who may or may not have credentials), doesn't mean he knows anything about EAB.
His offer that healthy trees respond more vigorously to fend off disease and pathogens as a response to an EAB infection speaks volumes to his ignorance of the matter.
"D. Staples", a forester in the SE *IS* educated, as is "Joe" (a forester in the NE.) There are other professional people who serve the posters on this newsgroup as well. We all have paid our dues serving the public, serving private and group land ownerships and acquiring a degree from different universities.
This is something that Keslick ("Symplastless") has *NOT* done.
...and his lack of knowledge on the subject matter, along with his self-marketing is a typical combination of a scam artist.
THIS is why I suggested to the original poster to simply ignore him.
I'd recommend that advice to my colleague D. Staples once again too.
(Note to Don, cheap entertainment yes - but there are bigger bangs for the buck so to speak).
As to you other faux geniuses out there, (e.g. "Billy Rose"), please take the mensa test and see how you score. I suspect that you will not fare as well as you think.
Regards, Geoff
Treelady wrote:
"I find Symplastless to have a good understanding of trees, theier > biology and appropriate care. To ignore him is to dismiss the > teachings of Alex Shigo- anyone claiming to understand or know about > trees without due regard for Shigo's work is one to be taken with a > pinch of salt."

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Treelady, et, Al.
The only reason you find "Symplastless" to have a good understanding of trees is that you are ignorant.
Note that I stated "ignorant" and not stupid. My statement is not an insult, but rather a logical reply based on your input.
It is obvious that none of the rest of you have enough experience with Emerald Ash Borer (EAB) to offer advice or experience with the critter.
So, instead this thread becomes a fury of insults. How ridiculously selfish.
I am the only one who has offered any positive information about this topic, with the exception of the person who started this thread - and that person was *NOT* "Symplastless".
Just because "Symplastless" has a "good understanding of trees" (a statement coming from someone ("Treelady") who may or may not have credentials), doesn't mean he knows anything about EAB.
His offer that healthy trees respond more vigorously to fend off disease and pathogens as a response to an EAB infection speaks volumes to his ignorance of the matter.
"D. Staples", a forester in the SE *IS* educated, as is "Joe" (a forester in the NE.) There are other professional people who serve the posters on this newsgroup as well. We all have paid our dues serving the public, serving private and group land ownerships and acquiring a degree from different universities.
This is something that Keslick ("Symplastless") has *NOT* done.
...and his lack of knowledge on the subject matter, along with his self-marketing is a typical combination of a scam artist.
THIS is why I suggested to the original poster to simply ignore him.
I'd recommend that advice to my colleague D. Staples once again too.
(Note to Don, cheap entertainment yes - but there are bigger bangs for the buck so to speak).
As to you other faux geniuses out there, (e.g. "Billy Rose"), please take the mensa test and see how you score. I suspect that you will not fare as well as you think.
Regards, Geoff
Treelady wrote:
"I find Symplastless to have a good understanding of trees, theier > biology and appropriate care. To ignore him is to dismiss the > teachings of Alex Shigo- anyone claiming to understand or know about > trees without due regard for Shigo's work is one to be taken with a > pinch of salt."

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Treelady, et, Al.
The only reason you find "Symplastless" to have a good understanding of trees is that you are ignorant.
Note that I stated "ignorant" and not stupid. My statement is not an insult, but rather a logical reply based on your input.
It is obvious that none of the rest of you have enough experience with Emerald Ash Borer (EAB) to offer advice or experience with the critter.
So, instead this thread becomes a fury of insults. How ridiculously selfish.
I am the only one who has offered any positive information about this topic, with the exception of the person who started this thread - and that person was *NOT* "Symplastless".
Just because "Symplastless" has a "good understanding of trees" (a statement coming from someone ("Treelady") who may or may not have credentials), doesn't mean he knows anything about EAB.
His offer that healthy trees respond more vigorously to fend off disease and pathogens as a response to an EAB infection speaks volumes to his ignorance of the matter.
"D. Staples", a forester in the SE *IS* educated, as is "Joe" (a forester in the NE.) There are other professional people who serve the posters on this newsgroup as well. We all have paid our dues serving the public, serving private and group land ownerships and acquiring a degree from different universities.
This is something that Keslick ("Symplastless") has *NOT* done.
...and his lack of knowledge on the subject matter, along with his self-marketing is a typical combination of a scam artist.
THIS is why I suggested to the original poster to simply ignore him.
I'd recommend that advice to my colleague D. Staples once again too.
(Note to Don, cheap entertainment yes - but there are bigger bangs for the buck so to speak).
As to you other faux geniuses out there, (e.g. "Billy Rose"), please take the mensa test and see how you score. I suspect that you will not fare as well as you think.
Regards, Geoff
Treelady wrote:
"I find Symplastless to have a good understanding of trees, theier

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Treelady, et, Al.
The only reason you find "Symplastless" to have a good understanding of trees is that you are ignorant.
Note that I stated "ignorant" and not stupid. My statement is not an insult, but rather a logical reply based on your input.
It is obvious that none of the rest of you have enough experience with Emerald Ash Borer (EAB) to offer advice or experience with the critter.
So, instead this thread becomes a fury of insults. How ridiculously selfish.
I am the only one who has offered any positive information about this topic, with the exception of the person who started this thread - and that person was *NOT* "Symplastless".
Just because "Symplastless" has a "good understanding of trees" (a statement coming from someone ("Treelady") who may or may not have credentials), doesn't mean he knows anything about EAB.
His offer that healthy trees respond more vigorously to fend off disease and pathogens as a response to an EAB infection speaks volumes to his ignorance of the matter.
"D. Staples", a forester in the SE *IS* educated, as is "Joe" (a forester in the NE.) There are other professional people who serve the posters on this newsgroup as well. We all have paid our dues serving the public, serving private and group land ownerships and acquiring a degree from different universities.
This is something that Keslick ("Symplastless") has *NOT* done.
...and his lack of knowledge on the subject matter, along with his self-marketing is a typical combination of a scam artist.
THIS is why I suggested to the original poster to simply ignore him.
I'd recommend that advice to my colleague D. Staples once again too.
(Note to Don, cheap entertainment yes - but there are bigger bangs for the buck so to speak).
As to you other faux geniuses out there, (e.g. "Billy Rose"), please take the mensa test and see how you score. I suspect that you will not fare as well as you think.
Regards, Geoff
Treelady wrote:
"I find Symplastless to have a good understanding of trees, theier

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Geoff-consulting forester in the US wrote:

Then you must also be ignorant to have posted this exact message 7 times! Note: I stated "ignorant" and this is my logical reply based on everyone's input:
All you self-righteous folk, go back to your "forestry" and leave our gardens, please!
In defense of John, all he did was reply to a thread that had been cross-posted. He was *NOT* the original cross-poster. Neither was Billy. Or Ann. Or myself. With some readers, if not all of them, when you hit reply to a thread, it sends the reply to all the groups that the OP sent it to. Whereas, you seem to think that we invaded your territory, STS, we could think the same here in wreck gardens. So how's bout a deal....you go back where you belong, and we will stay where we belong.
Oh & glad that Don's vocabulary is so advanced that he has to revert to name calling with explicits. That was so uncalled for. Is that the type of language you learned in your PR classes?
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This is probably as good a place as any in this thread to offer an observation.
You people are funny.
Wolfgang who spends most of his time in another newsgroup......no less populated with idiots and buffoons, to be sure.....but at least somebody actually says something once in a while. :)
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Rock on EVH - or is that Mozart? *damn, so confusing!*
Wolfgang wrote:

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message

Neither.
If you're young, you'll get used to it. If not, it won't matter for long.
Wolfgang
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On Aug 13, 1:37 pm, Geoff-consulting forester in the US

Oh dear. Thank you Geoff for repeating yourself. Now that I have the message loud and clear, I shall take my ignorant self elsewhere as I am completely overwhelmed by your intelligence.
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wrote:

As well you should be.
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On Tue, 14 Aug 2007 10:39:52 -0500, "Don Staples"

This has been an entertaining thread to observe........
"A little rudeness and disrespect can elevate a meaningless interaction into a battle of wills and add drama to an otherwise dull day." -Calvin discovers Usenet
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On Aug 14, 5:29 pm, Charlie wrote:

Tree People UNITE! lol. Having committed hari kari and enjoying the pleasure of being reborn, I, too, would like to vent some spleen: How many of you encounter people who insist they want to reduce mature trees by 50%? On the whole the clients that come our way are fairly decent but, still, too many think it is perfectly fine to cut a fifty foot tree in half. AND, they argue with me and my fellow comrades in arms, by insisting that their experience says it is a perfectly acceptable practice.
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wrote:

A bit counterintuitive, perhaps, but the idea isn't as preposterous as it may appear at first glance. If you cut the trees in half lengthwise (which is to say vertically) in situ, the odds are pretty good (at least in some species) that both halves will survive. Needless to say, this halving will result in having two trees where before there was only one. The net effect is that by reducing trees by 50% you actually DOUBLE the number of trees! Sweet. :)
Wolfgang
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lol
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Geoff-consulting forester in the US said:

Normally I do (in rec.gardens) but took a look at this thread.
(And as far as the symplastless fellow goes, I have no reason myself to know exactly how bark forms, my dictionaries are on shelves downstairs, and I don't 'feed' my trees or plants. I fertilize my lawn and, as it's sometimes put, I 'feed' the soil' in my gardens with compost and organic fertilizers.)

I'm glad someone does it.

I hope that that is the case...things look rather bleak from the middle of 'ground zero.'
Locally, the initial symtoms of what was called at first (if I remember correctly) 'ash decline' was noticed for several years before trees started dying in vast numbers.

I actually had one (the first live beetle I'd seen) tucked under the the windshield wiper on my car. I sure hope they don't normally ride around that way.

No doubt about that!

Do you have much trouble getting property owners to eliminate host trees? And in areas the EAB has run rampant over, can they survive at a low level on the basal shoots that ash trees put out? I know that there are many skeletal ash trees (especially along freeways* and in woodlots) that are still standing and some still send up new shoots.
*I suppose the excuse for this is lack of funds...
--
Pat in Plymouth MI ('someplace.net' is comcast)

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I have to admit, Pat it was tough even seeing your post in this giant pile of insults, but I found it and I'll answer your questions about EAB. See my comments below (some snipped):

-Pest and Pathogen scientists typically call severe undiagnosed health problems in trees "decline". It's a general term for not being able to diagnose exactly what is killing a tree.
It is sometimes quite a chore to figure out what is killing a tree or trees as there are literally THOUSANDS of potential pathogens, any of which could be affecting the tree either alone or in combination. We (foresters) know when we get out in a Beech/Maple forest for example when we see a Sugar maple with a target canker on it, it is probably caused by a Nectria genus fungi, but to place a species on it might be tough, since there are many species in that genus of fungi that could cause a canker. The only reason we know of the problem is that someone has taken the time to study it (in a lab) and the study was well documented and known and the disease is common enough to see in the forest.
In most cases, the diseases, insects or other pathogens have been studied, but the amount of time to research the specie(s) of pathogen affecting most single plants is often more costly than simply replacing the plants (in a landscape situation).
In an urban setting, trees have a higher value (landscape value) than do timber trees (at least typically they do), so more time (and $) can be spent taking care of them.
Luckily, someone was smart enough to notice unusual galleries in the White and Green ash trees and notice that it wasn't a previously known occurring pest. There are actually gov't people who are doing something for your money!
If you knew what was lurking in Asia (and to Europe to some extent) ready to come over on the boat to set up a "lunch plan" over here in America, you would be amazed - most people would want significant trade barriers up - but would they stop shopping at wal-mart? I think not...
Our latest problem is the Sirex wood wasp (also in NY, PA, and Ontario), which is a pest to "hard pines" like Austrian, Jack, Red and Scotch pines. The Red and Jack pines are obvious "problem" targets, as those are the only indigenous species of hard pines here, and they are worth collectively MANY times what the other two species are worth (from both a timber and ecologically important roles - A small example: Kirtland Warbler, a transmigratory bird depends on scrubby Jack pine fields for it's nesting habitat in the Grayling area).
We seriously hope it won't be as much of a problem as EAB is!

That is exactly how they get vectored. Windshield wipers, under the body, frame, wheels, etc. Firewood is a larger problem yet, since there can be larva underneath the bark and they can emerge in different locations.

No, but I'm a private forester - Not a gov't guy. Landowners depend on my decisions, not the other way around...
Generally, my advice is to hold off on cutting Ash trees that aren't ready to be cut. There is no sense just cutting trees "in case". Seriously, it's a bit ridiculous - but that's the way some loggers (and wood pimps) are trying to market (scare) landowners into cutting trees.
And in areas the EAB has run rampant over, can they survive

I don't know, but I suspect the answer is no - unless the bugs waited around until those shoots got large enough to produce bark thick enough to make a habitat for them again (10-15 years or so) - but they would have to do that by feeding on current ash trees within a 2 mile radius (max) or so.
I know that there

Yeah, the streets of Michigan Center, Michigan had dead Ash standing along the street the last time I was down there. It's horrible looking, but money is tight right now for nearly everybody in our state, public and private sectors.
Actually, lack of funds is a *valid reason* for the lack of further forced EAB extermination (believe me, the state burros will waste every damned red cent that they could get their greedy hands on, since they are clueless on where the money came from or held value to the previous holder anyway).
There are still quarantines on hauling wood between counties, etc. There are also checkpoints, but whether the transportation of wood is enforced or not is anyone's guess. I could find out just by calling around to some mills, etc. I suspect record auditing is going on, but unsure.
My responsibility ends outside my client's boundaries (since I always stay within them).
We have to do as much as possible to stop the vectoring of these critters into other areas that contain host trees.
EAB has brought Ash timber prices to record lows (relative to the strength of the dollar) during the last 5 years - and has had other indirect impacts toward the legislative process as well.
It's a whole lot better if we can educate people to understand how to eliminate this critter - but it takes everyone's involvement.
Not every green bug is an EAB, but if you're absolutely sure the one you see is, please squash him a.s.a.p.
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Geoff-consulting forester in the US said:

Thanks! It has gotten a bit thick around here (I post from rec.gardens). I hate to keep the cross-post going, but I will leave it in for this post only.
"J teh K" used to be somewhat of a joke here in rec.gardens years ago whenhe first showed up, but the mix has changed and he's got admirers under his current moniker. (His typos were legendary in the old days.)
I have some limitations to my newsreader (it's old but I like it) and I don't follow the alt.forestry group. If you wish to reply to me, I'm willing to take it privately in e-mail at comcast.net (not at someplace.net.net which does not exist).

Never shop at Wal-Mart voluntarily (pretty much have no choice when I visit my mother, sad to say).
We live in an accelerated world. The hits just keep coming, faster than ever. Humans managed to make a few dramatically nasty introductions in old days (walnut blight and gypsy moths, anyone?) but now we have giant containerized ships, flush-through bilges, and jet planes. Massive opportunities for opportunistic organisms!

Yes, I've read about that one. I hope it's appetite for the native pines is limited. So far what I've read said that other areas where Sirex has been introduced has it mainly targets non-native pines. (This threat makes the confirmed breeding of Kirtland's warblers in Wisconsin even more important to the species, I suppose. Eggs not all in one basket, as it were.)

Erg, that's not good, if they can be vectored other than by wood movement -- though I suppose that unlike gypsy moth caterpillars looking for a place to pupate, the EAB has no particular inclination to climb into car bodies or camper-trailers.
(It was definitely an EAB, and did not live to make a trip anywhere.)

Given enough territory and enough not-quite-dead ash trees it might be just barely possible (if extremely unlikely). I was rather haunted by descriptions of chestnut trees still throwing up shoots, only to have the blight take the new shoots, too.

This beetle is no respector of healthy trees. It mowed down everything around here. Proper pruning, watering, mulching, and fertilizing is not going to help that much when the bark of your neighbors' ash trees is riddled with 'D' shaped exit holes.

I'd hope if you were in an area where the EAB is not known to be already established, you might also consider telling someone about it.
--
Pat in Plymouth MI ('someplace.net' is comcast)

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Speaking of Shigo- he's great- I've got most of his books and I saw him give a lecture in the Green Mt. Nat. Forest- he cut down a tree and chopped it up. His work, IMHO, is some of the best stuff ever to come out of academia, in so far as a contribution to the work of field foresters.
Joe

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