Global warming and your garden

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It was 1980 that I read this interview, not the mid-seventies.
Here is the article that led so many places....
http://www.motherearthnews.com/Nature-Community/1980-07-01/Plowboy-Interview-John-Holt.aspx
We bought all John's books that were then available. Unfortunately we made the mistake of loaning them to someone and it was the last we ever saw of them. We no longer loan books to anyone, other than our children.
The books led us to Urie Bronfenbrenner and others that I cannot remember now.
Here is wiki's article on John
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Caldwell_Holt
A quote in the wiki article is one that influenced us greatly, John's philosophy summed up...."... the human animal is a learning animal; we like to learn; we are good at it; we don't need to be shown how or made to do it. What kills the processes are the people interfering with it or trying to regulate it or control it."
Lee and Billy spoke of this.
Thanks for the memories, Bill. :-)
Charlie
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In article

Just like the cheap seats I can look about stored papers and find gold.
John Gatto !! Check the Youtube for sure
<http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/John_Taylor_Gatto>
<http://books.google.com/books?as_auth=John+Taylor+Gatto&sa=X&oi=print&ct =title&cad=author-navigational&hl=en>
<http://www.naturalchild.org/guest/john_gatto.html
<
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=8ogCc8ObiwQ

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Garden in shade zone 5 S Jersey USA
Neat place .. http://www.petersvalley.org /
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I misunderstood the assumption and question. I remember John Gatto *now* that you mention him.
"My brain is like a sieve" ~~Thomas Dolby
Charlie. winamp - "Aliens Ate My Buick" - Ability to Swing - 4:30 - Thomas Dolby
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wrote:

John Holt, writing in TMEN, in the mid seventies, was the catalyst that propelled us into home schooling our sons. One of the better things we ever did. They are aproaching thirty and IMO have their heads on properly.
Charlie
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enigma wrote:

Not only that but a good deal of what they teach is just plain _wrong_. The only thing they really teach people how to do is go to school, which in the real world is about as useless a skill as one can imagine.
The thing that is frightening is that so many people, having gone through that, then willingly subject their own kids to it.
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On Tue, 20 May 2008 14:37:24 -0400, "J. Clarke"
[...]

Willingly? I dunno...lots of parents would love to send their children to good private schools but can't even begin to think about paying those prices. And I mean parents who are willing to sacrifice, big-time! The only places that still teach the 3Rs are the religious schools, because they get teachers on the cheap.
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On May 20, 6:48 pm, Persephone wrote:

Kinda shoots the argument that paying teachers more would result in better education. Actually, the reason private / religious schools produce better products is that they are allowed to exact discipline. As a frequent temp, I have that luxury in the public school. Students act up, I throw them out. "Where should I go" they ask. "I don't care" I answer. Then I get on with the task of the day to, usually, interested students.
cheers
oz
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On Tue, 20 May 2008 18:30:24 -0700 (PDT), MajorOz

Must be across the Pond. Temps in the U.S. public schools, especially large urban ones, have a terrible time. A dear friend of mine (now deceased) was a writer who eked out a living by substituting. He reported spit balls along with every kind of nuisance and disturbance. Subs like him generally wise up and run a movie for the students while they read a book.
Aspasia
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wrote:

That is a total waste of time. But many schools do have "classes" that are just dumping grounds, where they put difficult children who refuse to be students (for whatever reason).
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Billy
Bush Behind Bars
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On May 21, 3:12 am, Persephone wrote:

...only my catfish pond...

Not me, for various reasons; one stated. Classroom discipline, for me, is not a problem. It is amazing how many of the other problems disappear when that one is solved. I am in one of the most rural of rural areas, in the Ozarks.

Sorry to hear that. Were I permanent faculty, I couldn't get away with throwing the trouble makers out. However, as a temp, I have a lot of freedom in means and method. "You don't like it, don't call me"
cheers
oz, who much prefers college level teaching where they come motivated.
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oups.com:

it might. if the choice is between teaching, with a salery of $40k/year (knowing that you have to supply your own classroom with pencils, paper, chalk, hankies, hand cleaner, supplemental reading books etc *and* pay off that student loan for the required Master's degree) and a private sector job that pays $75K+ per year, which would you choose?

well, more or less. a private or religious school can throw out any student that they choose, so they can pick only willing, non-disabled students. public schools can't do that, and frequently public school teachers have kids with learning disabilities, ESL or numerous other issues that take what little teaching time they have after the bureaucratic paperwork... it's a lose/lose game.
lee <my dad thought i should be a teacher. ew!>
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Ew? There is a satisfaction in teaching, at least there is until the administration beats it out of you, in seeing a student "get it", to read the implications, not just the explicit text. Besides providing for the moment, what could be more important than preparing for the future?
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Billy
Bush Behind Bars
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ew, because i could not be a public school teacher. i could not teach only to the test. i could not restrain my enthusiasm for knowledge. i could not simply turn out good little cogs... and that is strongly frowned upon by the administration. i did have a few good teachers (i can count them on one hand with fingers left over). they didn't last long... not because they couldn't teach, but because they couldn't, or wouldn't, play the politics game. i know that i wouldn't kiss ass, so going into teaching would have been a bad thing for everyone (including the students, because once you have a teacher that opens your eyes to the possibilities of what learning *could* be, & then that teacher is gone, well, then the same old grind is even more onerous). what baffles me is there are public school grade school teachers that completely avoid teaching certain subjects simply because they dislike or don't understand it, including math. how can that be allowed to occur? lee
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Never seen that in California. What I have seen is a class that is shown movies, with no assignment attached to it, or the students can just "hang". A recruiter from an technology school referred to it as a dumping ground, although I've seen the same students function (stay on task) in other classes. The teacher is studying for his "Administrator's Credential" and the Principal does nothing because they are pals. Criminally "wasted time" for the students. Oh, and I'm not welcome to that school any longer.
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Billy
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On Tue, 20 May 2008 16:48:59 -0700, Persephone wrote:

What about accessability? Lots of parents don't live anywhere near private or alternative schools. There are places other than cities, you know, like out here in the sticks, areas which so many people overlook and write off.
And furthermore, there are countless numbers of homeschoolers who continue to teach the "3 Rs". Also parents and grandparents who "supplement" public education.
The reason "religious" schools still teach well may be on account of the fact they don't bite the federal carrot and don't accept federal monies. Has nothing to do with getting teachers "on the cheap".
Charlie
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On Tue, 20 May 2008 20:39:20 -0500, Charlie wrote:

Wake up, Rip V.W. Let me count the ways in which our beloved leader has subverted the U.S. Constitution by hacking away at the wall between Church and State! Pandering to his supposed * "base" he -- or rather his puppet-masters -- have been dishing out Federal dollars to "faith-based" schools on flimsy pretexts for much of his tenure.
Religious schools DO in fact pay their teachers less than public or private schools! I'm always reading protests about under- paid religious school teachers. Of course in the case of the Catholic Church, it's because they use (not exclusively) priests and nuns.
* "Supposed" because "Bush's Brain", the sinister Karl Rove, who thought the Reps would breeze through the 2006 midterms again by pandering to their evangelical "base", got a rude awakening when the Dems took back both houses of Congress. Shortly afterwards he was handed his hat - officially. But he still lurks, albeit ex officio.
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Sounds horrible. I can't imagine a teacher doing that. You sound like the student that all teachers are looking for. My experience has been that a third of the students don't need the teacher's help if the information is presented in an intelligent way that bridges from the known to what is to be learned. Probably, another third need a little help, and another third that needs support. And then there is that 5% or so that defy you to teach them. I think most of them are just afraid of failing, so they don't try.
Today's classes are too large, 20 students should be a max. And not all students have a textbook that they can take home. Some classes are taught from surplus magazines. Not enough money they say.
Teachers have become the dumping grounds for societies problems. You can't hug a kid. If you see a bruise, should you report it? Parents don't know about sex, so it becomes the teachers role to explain it. Drug education is pure propaganda. Explaining the health consequences of smoking marijuana when everyone knows that no one has ever died or gotten cancer from a cannabinol overdose and that beer and tobacco are legal and can kill you. Knowing this, the kids don't listen when you try to tell them how bad methamphetamine and heroine is.
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wrote:

Wow, if I didn't know you wrote this post I'd have thought it was one of mine. I completely stopped entering the doors of a school at the sixth grade. The day I turned 16 I officially quit.
There was one teacher who gave me a little bit of inspiration. For a short time I attended my English class. This happened because everyone I hung out with went to class during that period, so I went too.
The book we were interpreting was "Lost Horizon." She said she was not really a teacher, but she was from Utopia and we were given a choice to make. We could stay here in this "reality," or we could go back with her. The one thing was, we couldn't return. Once we went, we went. I found this very interesting for a few minutes.
I grew up with people like Andrew Dice Clay. It was our highschool, James Madison in Brooklyn, NY where we "cut out" daily. The time period was when they were filming "The Lord's of Flatbush." It was our school as the backdrop for the film. I knew the girl who lived in the house where the Susan Blakely character lived in the film.
It's actually not Flatbush there, it's East Flatbush.
Anyway, I was bored to tears with school until I entered College where I was with like minds with similar interests and I love it.
Pardon the rambling, I fell on my knee replacement leg today so I'm on some interesting pain medication!
Victoria
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In article

Or have the parents take the time to do some of it! I learned my survival stuff from mom and dad, and church camp.
Not in school...
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Peace! Om

"Human nature seems to be to control other people
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Prepare for the worst, and hope for the best.

Our infotainment media keeps Americans pretty well insulated from reality. I don't think most Americans have any idea about how wasteful we are. There certainly is a percentage of Americans who think we have a "manifest destiny" (even though it is beginning to look like the same one the lemmings have) an entitlement to rule the planet. Unfortunately for them, even relatively frugal western Europe is going to have a hard time managing its' life style. Wars certainly aren't the answer, India and Pakistan are highly populated and nuclear armed. A war there would leave only a few humans to face the fruition of our industrial age, based on fossil fuel.

Some do but most of the manufacturing jobs have been out sourced. http://www.rop.scoe.org /

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Billy
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