A Perspective on Raised Gardens

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Now that spring is rapidly approaching you may wish to check out this interesting discussion about raised gardens: http://greatgardens.org/article1.html
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Unfortunately I able unable to read this because of it dark green background color.
Dick
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Here you go....
From the website:
A Perspective on Raised Gardens
Raised garden beds serve many purposes, the first of which is to install a viable garden in an area that would otherwise be unsuitable. Lack of space might be the primary reason for erecting a raised garden while poor soil conditions may be another. Raised garden beds often serve as activity centers for church groups, senior citizen centers, nursing homes and schools for the handicapped.
Businesses such as landscapers offer raised garden installations as an added service. Real estate agents might suggest to prospective home sellers that they add a fully blooming raised flower garden to an otherwise bleak setting, to enhance the curb appeal of their home.
A rapidly growing concept
Raised gardens are by no means a new idea but the concept is rapidly gaining adherents. Research centers and agricultural experimental stations are turning more and more to raised garden beds as a way to achieve their goals. Public schools often have a garden club where students are able to express themselves creatively by developing garden spots, then experiencing the thrill of seeing the first little sprouts rise through the surface of the soil; then to finally display their efforts as a harvest of beautiful vegetables.
How does one go about developing a raised garden bed? Quite frankly there are more methods than is possible to list. Gaining in popularity are gardens erected using composite lumber or cedar planks. Both of these materials are suitable because they reject moisture and for their resistance to rotting. Either of these materials will give long lasting gardens. Those individuals who are particularly energetic may pursue a construction technique involving the use of faux stone. These interlocking concrete blocks make very attractive raised gardens but are considered to be quite permanent.
Gardens constructed of planks on the other hand, offer the option of being able to dismantle the garden should it become necessary. Once the planks are removed, the soil can then be raked onto the surrounding area and smoothed and possibly be replanted as lawn.
Raised gardens have evolved from tediously laid out and laborious projects, to a simple hinged style that erects by unfolding into a rectangle, the style featured in this website. The action of folding the garden frame makes the assembly easy to ship and erection is achieved by merely spreading the frame open with ones feet. Since all sections of the frame are joined together assembly is eliminated. Truly, what could be simpler?
Site selection
Selecting a site is of the utmost importance as you will want your garden to benefit from the maximum amount of sunlight. With this in mind, aligning the garden east to west keeping in mind the shading effects of local trees will allow the sun to shine on the garden for the longest period possible each day. Ideally you would select a level site, making sure that it has good drainage. You should avoid locating the garden in a spot that tends to puddle during downpours. If more than one garden is to be located in the same area, be sure to leave space for access for wheel chairs or scooters when such equipment is to be used. If the paths between the garden are to be grass, access for a mower must be made.
One of the first considerations once the site for the garden has been selected is to rid the area of potential weeds and grass. This may be accomplished by placing several layers of newspapers over the affected space after spraying the area with vinegar.
The height of the sides of the garden should be governed by the type of plantings that will be taking place as well as accessibility. If wheelchair access is desired then the taller the better. If the gardener prefers to limit his bending, then height is also a consideration. If the soil beneath the garden is suitable then a single level garden might be acceptable as less soil mixture would be required in the raised portion of the garden.
If the soil is packed clay as it is in many regions, or very rocky, then a two level garden might be preferred. It all depends on the circumstances. Each level in most cases is approximately six inches tall so a two level garden would be nearly eleven inches tall while a custom made triple decker would be something like seventeen inches tall.
Next comes the question as to what you would like to plant in the garden. If flowers are your joy, then a shallow garden would be appropriate while the vegetable garden may require deeper soil for root types of plants. So according to this, a single level garden would do well for the flower gardener and the double level would do for the vegetable gardener.
The amount of soil you will be needing depends on the depth of your garden. Our rule of thumb for the popular 4 ft x 8ft x 12 inch high garden is that it requires one cubic yard of soil. That is approximately equivalent to the capacity of a standard full size pickup truck. The medium sized 6 ft x 4 ft x 12 inch kitchen garden takes about 3/4 of a yard of soil while the 4 ft x 4 ft x 12 inch herb garden takes half a yard. Since garden centers sell soil in 40 pound bags containing one cubic foot of material you can figure that the large 4 x 8 foot double decker garden will require about 27 bags of soil. The cost for the full cubic yard will be approximately $35.00. So you see, the cost for soil needed for your garden is quite reasonable.
Vegetable variations
Be sure to plant variations of vegetables you enjoy the most. You will immediately be impressed by the difference in the taste of the vegetables you grow yourself over what you experience with store bought food. Too bad you can't grow your own veggies year round.
Arranging the types of vegetables, or flowers, to best take advantage of the sun should be considered. Taller plants would naturally be toward the back as would trellised vines. Selections similar to tomatoes might grace the center rows while things that grow close to the ground like lettuce and cabbage would be planted in front. This maximizes the sun for each species. Another consideration would be to stagger the planting of each kind of vegetable to different times so that they would bear fruit throughout the season. Don't forget that you may have several planting times when you consider that some plants thrive into the fall.
Watering is a very important consideration, so be sure to locate your garden near a source for water. For instance, a tomato plant can absorb at least a quart of water each day. One plan is to sink a row of black potted plant containers into the garden into which you will plant your tomatoes so that you are able to water directly into the roots of the tomato plants while avoiding saturating the rest of the garden.
The idea behind the 4 foot wide gardens is to keep it narrow enough to avoid having to step in it. This prevents the soil from being excessively compacted and allows the roots to receive a greater amount of oxygen. All weeding is easily carried out from the pathway along side the garden.
Organic Gardening
Many people are moving to some form of organic gardening because they feel that much of the chemical fertilizer used to raise vegetables commercially enters the food chain and is harmful to our bodies. Gaining in popularity is the use of manure that has been refined and treated for the organic gardener thus avoiding the use of chemicals all together. Of course, the establishment of a compost bin is a wonderful way to nourish your garden organically. Grass clippings, leaves, even garbage from the kitchen can be added to the compost bin where nature will do her work.
One of the fun things you might experiment with in your raised garden is to develop your own source for seeds. As an example, you may buy some corn that is very much to your liking. You normally cut off the end of the ear before cooking and discard the tip. Instead of throwing away that section of the ear, set it aside and allow it to completely dry. The kernels now become seeds you can plant in your garden. Same thing can be done with squash and melons.
When planting tomatoes, be sure to plant several varieties so that you can enjoy full sized tomatoes as well as smaller salad varieties. Do the same with lettuce. Select a potpourri of species for a wonderful variety.
We have skimmed the subject of raised gardening here but will be delving into many of the subjects touched upon in future articles, so be sure to bookmark this location so you can benefit from the additional material as it is published.
Thanks for visiting, J. Edwin Williams www.greatgardens.org
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On Mar 2, 7:08 pm, snipped-for-privacy@smart.net (Dick Adams) wrote:

There are a series of articles at www.raised-garden-bed.com you may wish to check out. Jay
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You're a slimey bottom feeder of a spammer, the kind of crud the rest of us scrape off our shoes whilst glaring at the neighbor's dog.
You have been reported to your ISP.
Penelope
--
You have proven yourself to be the most malicious,
classless person that I've encountered in years.
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wrote:

Is this your hobby or are you sick????
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Razing nose-picking philistines who spam newsgroups with their substandard and overpriced products whilst hiding behind fake email addresses?
That sir, is my honor.
Now run along back to your crummy little store, there's a good boy, before I get cranky and chastise you harshly.
Penelope
--
You have proven yourself to be the most malicious,
classless person that I've encountered in years.
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wrote:

Human genes in your food? By SEAN POULTER - More by this author Last updated at 22:25pm on 5th March 2007
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The first GM food crop containing human genes is set to be approved for commercial production.
The laboratory-created rice produces some of the human proteins found in breast milk and saliva.
Its U.S. developers say they could be used to treat children with diarrhoea, a major killer in the Third World.
The rice is a major step in so-called Frankenstein Foods, the first mingling of human-origin genes and those from plants. But the U.S. Department of Agriculture has already signalled it plans to allow commercial cultivation.
The rice's producers, California-based Ventria Bioscience, have been given preliminary approval to grow it on more than 3,000 acres in Kansas. The company plans to harvest the proteins and use them in drinks, desserts, yoghurts and muesli bars.
The news provoked horror among GM critics and consumer groups on both sides of the Atlantic.
GeneWatch UK, which monitors new GM foods, described it as "very disturbing". Researcher Becky Price warned: "There are huge, huge health risks and people should rightly be concerned about this."
Friends of the Earth campaigner Clare Oxborrow said: "Using food crops and fields as glorified drug factories is a very worrying development.
"If these pharmaceutical crops end up on consumers' plates, the consequences for our health could be devastating.
"The biotech industry has already failed to prevent experimental GM rice contaminating the food chain.
"The Government must urge the U.S. to ban the production of drugs in food crops. It must also introduce tough measures to prevent illegal GM crops contaminating our food and ensure that biotech companies are liable for any damage their products cause."
In the U.S., the Union of Concerned Scientists, a policy advocacy group, warned: "It is unwise to produce drugs in plants outdoors.
"There would be little control over the doses people might get exposed to, and some might be allergic to the proteins."
The American Consumers Union and the Washingtonbased Centre for Food Safety also oppose Ventria's plans.
As well as the contamination fears there are serious ethical concerns about such a fundamental interference with the building blocks of life.
Yet there is no legal means for Britain and Europe to ban such products on ethical grounds.
Imports would have to be accepted once they had gone through a scientific safety assessment.
The development is what may people feared when, ten years ago, food scientists showed what was possible by inserting copies of fish genes from the flounder into tomatoes, to help them withstand frost.
Ventria has produced three varieties of the rice, each with a different human-origin gene that makes the plants produce one of three human proteins.
Two - lactoferrin and lysozyme - are bacteria-fighting compounds found in breast milk and saliva. The genes, cultivated and copied in a laboratory to produce a synthetic version, are carried into embryonic rice plants inside bacteria.
Until now, plants with human-origin genes have been restricted to small test plots.
Ventria originally planned to grow the rice in southern Missouri but the brewer Anheuser-Busch, a huge buyer of rice, threatened to boycott the state amid concern over contamination and consumer reaction.
Now the USDA, saying the rice poses "virtually no risk". has given preliminary approval for it to be grown in Kansas, which has no commercial rice farms.
Ventria will also use dedicated equipment, storage and processing facilities supposed to prevent seeds from mixing with other crops.
The company says food products using the rice proteins could help save many of the two million children a year who die from diarrhoea and the resulting dehydration and complications. A recent study in Peru, sponsored by Ventria, showed that children with severe diarrhoea recovered a day and a half faster if the salty fluids they were prescribed included the proteins.
The rice could also be a huge money-spinner in the Western world, with parents being told it will help their children get over unpleasant stomach bugs more quickly.
Ventria chief executive Scott Deeter said last night: "We have a product here that can help children get better faster."
He said any concerns about safety and contamination were "based on perception, not reality" given all the precautions the company was taking.
Mr Deeter said production in plants was far cheaper than other methods, which should help make the therapy affordable in the developing world.
He said: "Plants are phenomenal factories. Our raw materials are the sun, soil and water."
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Is it just me? These last posting from Jay seem to be losing the focus of rec.gardens.edible. I mean there are lots of crummy things going on in the kleptocracy that we live in but it seems to me that we need to take the hinayana approach here in rec.gardens.edible or the news group will become everything about everything. So let's all rally around the sunflowers and scratch at the dirt, and when your feeling feisty, we can meet at rec.gov.throwthebastardsout or go google my hero, Jose Bov.
Hum, I see I have a penny change my two cents.
- Bill Coloribus gustibus non disputatum (more or less:-)
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wrote:

Jay is a spammer. He wants you to come to his web site and buy his product. His email address is faked, Yahoo says he doesn't exist. He never had any intention of posting to *cough, cough* "the focus of rec.gardens.edible".
When I called him on his spamming, he had a tantrum. He was sending things to my email as well as here until I plonked his behind outside my spam filters.

Your habit of trying to tell everyone how they can and can't post to this froup is gauche. If you wish to follow the practices of some defunct Buddhist sect, please go right ahead; but stop trying to force your choices on the rest of us. I like my peppers, my men, and my conversations spicy.
Penelope
--
You have proven yourself to be the most malicious,
classless person that I've encountered in years.
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wrote:

Your habit of trying to tell everyone how they can and can't post to this froup is gauche. If you wish to follow the practices of some defunct Buddhist sect, please go right ahead; but stop trying to force your choices on the rest of us.
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Gauche? Do you have the faintest concept of what gauche means? Gauche because I'd like a little civility? Gauche because some cut and paste, aluminum siding salesman, and a red hot mama want to take up space set aside for digging dirt, not dishing it? Non, non, non, Monsieur et Madam, vous tes vraiment gauche.
OK, OK, so I'm only human, we all make mistakes. Reminds me of the time I was comfortably astraddle a bar stool in the Blue Beet in Balboa, California, and I notice the lady (old) next to me has a black eye and stitches in one cheek. I don't know what came over me, but I asked her what happened. She says "my ol' man beat me with a table radio". Jeez, I sez, completely losing my wits, why do you stay with the SOB? Where upon she slides down off her bar stool and starts coming towards me saying, "You can't call my ol' man an SOB"!!!?
All I can say is the best of luck to the both of you. Have fun.
Oh, maybe I should explain, to the best of my knowledge (uh-huh) the Hinayana Buddists believe, much like Protestants, that we are each responsible for our own salvation, enlightenment, call it what you will. Where as the Mahayana Buddists believe that we are all responsible for everyone's salvation, enlightenment, und so weiter. So I opined that the group rec.gardens.edible would be better off without shucksters and ego drivel as characterized above and,the good Lord willing, stick to the reason that we are here.
I now withdraw from the field of combat, bloodied but unbowed. Everybody may now think as they like. Free will is back. You have my blessings. I no longer have any power over you. Go for it.
But, . . . if you do feel some ego flatulance coming on, I'd appreciate it if you could hold it or take it to another news froup, I mean another news group. But that's just sooo me:-)
It'll just be my luck, that I just chastised the two cognitively challenged members of the group.
Well, gotta run. I think my duvet is calling me.
-Bill Coloribus gustibus non disputatum (mostly)
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William Rose wrote:
[rant snipt, even though it was kinda cute]

What's it calling you?
--

"Truth matters, God doesn't & life sucks."

-- House, M.D.
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Jay wrote:

[snip]
I know you are, but what am I?
Takes one to know one!
--

"Truth matters, God doesn't & life sucks."

-- House, M.D.
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wrote:

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wrote:

FDA Rules Override Warnings About Drug Cattle Antibiotic Moves Forward Despite Fears of Human Risk
By Rick Weiss Washington Post Staff Writer Sunday, March 4, 2007; A01
The government is on track to approve a new antibiotic to treat a pneumonia-like disease in cattle, despite warnings from health groups and a majority of the agency's own expert advisers that the decision will be dangerous for people.
The drug, called cefquinome, belongs to a class of highly potent antibiotics that are among medicine's last defenses against several serious human infections. No drug from that class has been approved in the United States for use in animals.
The American Medical Association and about a dozen other health groups warned the Food and Drug Administration that giving cefquinome to animals would probably speed the emergence of microbes resistant to that important class of antibiotics, as has happened with other drugs. Those super-microbes could then spread to people.
Echoing those concerns, the FDA's advisory board last fall voted to reject the request by InterVet Inc. of Millsboro, Del., to market the drug for cattle.
Yet by all indications, the FDA will approve cefquinome this spring. That outcome is all but required, officials said, by a recently implemented "guidance document" that codifies how to weigh the threats to human health posed by proposed new animal drugs.
The wording of "Guidance for Industry #152" was crafted within the FDA after a long struggle. In the end, the agency adopted language that, for drugs like cefquinome, is more deferential to pharmaceutical companies than is recommended by the World Health Organization.
Cefquinome's seemingly inexorable march to market shows how a few words in an obscure regulatory document can sway the government's approach to protecting public health.
Industry representatives say they trust Guidance #152's calculation that cefquinome should be approved. "There is reasonable certainty of no harm to public health," Carl Johnson, InterVet's director of product development, told the FDA last fall.
Others say Guidance #152 makes it too difficult for the FDA to say no to some drugs.
"The industry says that 'until you show us a direct link to human mortality from the use of these drugs in animals, we don't think you should preclude their use,' " said Edward Belongia, an epidemiologist at the Marshfield Clinic Research Foundation in Wisconsin. "But do we really want to drive more resistance genes into the human population? It's easy to open the barn door, but it's hard to close the door once it's open."
The FDA knows how hard it can be to close that door. In the mid-1990s, overriding the objections of public health experts from the Centers for Disease Control and Prevention (CDC), the drug agency approved the marketing of two drugs, Baytril and SaraFlox, for use in poultry. Both are fluoroquinolones, a class of drugs important for their ability to fight the bioterror bacterium that causes anthrax and a food-borne bacterium called campylobacter, which causes a serious diarrheal disease in people.
Before long, doctors began finding fluoroquinolone-resistant strains of campylobacter in patients hospitalized with severe diarrhea. When studies showed a link to poultry, the FDA sought a ban. But while Abbott Laboratories, which made SaraFlox, pulled its product, Baytril's manufacturer, Bayer Corp., pushed back.
"They fought this tooth and nail. It took years," said Kirk Smith, an epidemiologist at the Minnesota Department of Health.
Finally, late in 2005, Bayer gave up, but not before fluoroquinolone resistance had spread even further. A Question of Resistance
Microbes are constantly mutating, and some of those mutations happen to confer immunity to one drug or another. Exacerbating the problem, bacteria constantly exchange bits of DNA with each other, spreading that resistance.
Given those realities, experts agree that all antibiotics should be used judiciously.
"If a drug is used less, then less resistance emerges," said Patricia Griffin, chief of intestinal disease epidemiology for the CDC.
Prudence is especially important for medicines of last resort, which is why the cefquinome application stirred such a storm.
Cefquinome is a fourth-generation cephalosporin, the most recent of several steadily improving versions of the cephalosporin family of antibiotics. Only one medicine from that family has been approved in the United States -- a powerful human drug called cefepime (brand name Maxipime), which is the only effective treatment for serious infections in cancer patients and a reliable lifesaver against several other nearly invincible infections.
InterVet developed cefquinome to treat bovine respiratory disease, the most common disease in cattle. Recognizing the potential public health implications of using a close cousin of cefepime in animals, the FDA's Center for Veterinary Medicine, which oversees animal drug approvals, convened its expert advisers in September.
One of the first things the group learned was that more than a dozen medicines are already on the market for the respiratory syndrome, and all are still effective.
"If we have no susceptibility problem, why do we need one more new drug?" asked James E. Leggett Jr., a professor of medicine at Oregon Health & Science University, whom the FDA brought in as a consultant on the cefquinome question.
The panel also learned that the disease would be a relatively minor issue but for the stressful conditions under which U.S. cattle are raised, including high-density living spaces and routine shipment on crowded trains for hundreds or thousands of miles. Those "production dynamics" suppress the animals' immune systems, explained feedlot consultant Kelly Lechtenberg of Oakland, Neb., and virtually guarantee that bovine respiratory disease will be a major problem.
Yet Stephen Sundlof, head of the FDA's Veterinary Medicine Center, told the panel members that under agency rules they should ignore those issues and consider only the language in Guidance #152. Flaws Seen in Rules
Guidance #152 is essentially a checklist of points to consider when weighing the potential human impact of a new animal drug.
After the Baytril debacle, the public health community embraced the idea of a guidance document. A formalized risk-assessment process promised to minimize the chances of making a bad regulatory call.
But a struggle ensued when the FDA hosted meetings to spell out the criteria to be used for measuring risk, often with veterinarians and veterinary drug companies on one side and doctors and public health experts on the other.
When differences could not be resolved after repeated drafts and months of work, the agency sidestepped some tough issues and adopted language that both sides agree can block approval of the most worrisome drugs -- those such as Baytril that are put in animal feed or water, and so are easily overused. But public health experts say the wording tilts the playing field toward industry for other kinds of drugs. They want to see it revised.
Most glaring, they say, is that the guidance makes it almost impossible to say no to a new animal drug unless it is likely to threaten the effectiveness of an antibiotic that is a critical player against food-borne illnesses. By contrast, the World Health Organization recommends saying no if approval would spur resistance to any antibiotic that is important for fighting "serious human disease" -- not just food-borne illnesses.
Cefquinome's primary threat is that it may undermine the usefulness of the closely related human drug, cefepime. But as it turns out, the FDA does not consider cefepime a front-line drug against food-borne infections. So although it is a highly important drug in human medicine generally -- and although the Infectious Diseases Society of America even recommends it against some food-borne bacteria -- that risk does not count under the terms of Guidance #152.
A related problem is that the guidance's definition of "food-borne" is conservative, said Margaret Mellon of the Union of Concerned Scientists, a science policy advocacy group. For example, most urinary tract infections are caused by intestinal bacteria acquired from food, and cefepime is prescribed for those infections. If the FDA counted those infections as food-borne, then the guidance's formula would call for rejecting cefquinome for cattle.
"But FDA didn't do that," Mellon said. "That restricted the analysis right there."
Moreover, the guidance does not take into account that when microbes become resistant to fourth-generation cephalosporins, they often gain resistance to third-generation versions, too.
Third-generation cephalosporins are among the only effective therapies for serious gastrointestinal diseases in children and are the sole therapies for many cases of meningitis. That means the emergence of resistance to fourth-generation cephalosporins "could have a much more far-reaching effect" than is considered under the terms of Guidance #152, John H. Powers, a medical officer at the FDA's Center for Drug Evaluation and Research, told the agency's panel of experts. How Great a Risk?
Richard Carnevale, vice president for scientific and regulatory affairs at the Animal Health Institute, which represents veterinary drugmakers, said critics should not presume that a dozen drugs effective against bovine respiratory syndrome are enough.
"It's not a question of whether there is a need or not," Carnevale said. "The answer is, there's always a need."
The institute contends that the risk to human health posed by animal antibiotics has been overblown.
Officials at InterVet declined several requests to be interviewed. In a statement, the company said it "fully supports the prudent use of antibiotics in animals."
The statement also said that in Europe, fourth-generation cephalosporins similar to cefquinome have been used in animals for the past decade "without compromising the interests of public health."
Yet recent European data indicate that resistance against this class of antibiotics is on the rise.
An analysis of E. coli bacteria in pigs and other animals in Spain, published in December, found high levels of the resistance that renders fourth-generation cephalosporins useless. A January report from Britain documented similar resistance patterns emerging at 10 farms.
Microbes resistant to fourth-generation cephalosporins have also begun to pop up in European patients. Such resistance is virtually unknown in the United States, where fourth-generation cefepime has been used in patients since 1997. That suggests that the resistance emerging in Europe is a result of veterinary use, said Steve Roach of the Food Animal Concerns Trust, a Chicago public interest group.
Roach says he is concerned that history is about to repeat itself. U.S. cattle were free of bacteria resistant to third-generation cephalosporins in 1997, but by 2003 one of every five samples was resistant. "This is exactly what should be avoided with cefquinome," he said. Merely Suggestions
At the FDA advisory meeting in September, the agency's experts defied Guidance #152 and voted 6 to 4 against approval of cefquinome. But that day, and in follow-up interviews, Sundlof, the agency's veterinary chief, made it plain that the vote was "not binding."
"I think we all agreed . . . that Guidance for Industry #152 would be the criteria against which we would base our decisions on safety," Sundlof said at the meeting.
Concerned that the FDA is poised to approve cefquinome, Congress's only microbiologist recently wrote to the agency.
"Given the recent outbreaks of E. coli and other food borne illnesses across the nation, it is hardly the time to ignore the advice of scientists, and potentially impair our ability to treat deadly infections," wrote Rep. Louise M. Slaughter (D-N.Y.), who chairs the House Rules Committee.
Yet, being realists, the FDA advisers in September said more than just no. They told the FDA that if it approves cefquinome, then it should at least impose limits to minimize the potential consequences. One suggestion was to explicitly preclude "off label" use of the drug -- that is, to tell veterinarians that it can be used only for bovine respiratory disease.
But Sundlof said that, under FDA rules, those decisions must be left up to veterinarians unless there is clear evidence that wider use is causing harm.
"We have to take a fairly legal interpretation," Sundlof said in an interview. "If we have no evidence of a problem, or sparse evidence, we would not be able to make the prohibition prior to approval."
However, raising a point that opponents do not find very reassuring, he noted: "As soon as we have the first glimpse of evidence that off- label use of a drug is causing resistance, we have the authority to prohibit off-label use."
The advisers also urged that as a condition of approval, the FDA should demand that InterVet provide annual reports on how much cefquinome was used and in which animals -- data that would help scientists detect links between the drug's use and patterns of resistance that emerge in people.
"Without reliable, meaningful data on the quantity of use, the purpose of use, the type, number and location of animals treated, it will be exceedingly difficult to interpret fluctuations in rates of resistance," said Susan Prolman of the Union of Concerned Scientists.
But Sundlof offered little hope for that outcome.
"That is information that would be useful to have," he said. But the agency does not have the authority to demand it.
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wrote:

Razing nose-picking philistines who spam newsgroups with their substandard and overpriced products whilst hiding behind fake email addresses?
That sir, is my honor.
Now run along back to your crummy little store, there's a good boy, before I get cranky and chastise you harshly.
Penelope
-- You have proven yourself to be the most malicious, classless person that I've encountered in years.

Razing nose-picking philistines who spam newsgroups with their substandard and overpriced products whilst hiding behind fake email addresses?
That sir, is my honor.
Now run along back to your crummy little store, there's a good boy, before I get cranky and chastise you harshly.
Penelope
-- You have proven yourself to be the most malicious, classless person that I've encountered in years.

Razing nose-picking philistines who spam newsgroups with their substandard and overpriced products whilst hiding behind fake email addresses?
That sir, is my honor.
Now run along back to your crummy little store, there's a good boy, before I get cranky and chastise you harshly.
Penelope
-- You have proven yourself to be the most malicious, classless person that I've encountered in years.

Razing nose-picking philistines who spam newsgroups with their substandard and overpriced products whilst hiding behind fake email addresses?
That sir, is my honor.
Now run along back to your crummy little store, there's a good boy, before I get cranky and chastise you harshly.
Penelope
-- You have proven yourself to be the most malicious, classless person that I've encountered in years.
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<stuff>
Oh dear, good thing I didn't chastise him as it appears my sarcasm has completely unhinged him.
Penelope
--
"Maybe you'd like to ask the Wizard for a heart."
"ElissaAnn" < snipped-for-privacy@everybodycansing.com>
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wrote:

Best you back off as you are flirting with slander which I take VERY seriously.
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OOOOOHHHHH!
Now you plan to censure what people say on usenet. Yeah, that always works! Snort...
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