Dade County FL

Hi, Does anyone here have any experience with obtaining a building permit in Dade County, Florida? I have been told some horror stories by subcontractors down there.
The job is only to construct two handicap accessible restrooms in an older retail store where three small restrooms existed. The owners prematurely demolished the three restrooms and now are going next door to use a restroom.
I was handed some simple hand-drawn plans that had been bounced with a comment list. I redrew the plans both in CAD and complying with handicap locations, dimensions, etc. and now it has bounced with another list of "comments".
Locally, on a job this small the MEP subs can do hand sketches of risers or diagrams with the plans only locating the fixtures. I'm being told now that we must hire a mechanical and electrical engineer.
Any comments or suggestions will be appreciated.
Chandler Knowles Pensacola, FL
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I read somewhere that Dade is giving you an initial review and a follow-up included in the permit price. All subsequent reviews cost the owner and are payable up front before the subsequent reviews. Maybe they're trying to make up for the shortfall with the downturn in the economy.
You're starting out in a hole picking up a project that's already been submitted. You really have no way of verifying what happened in the first go round. Owner's have been known to fudge facts, and building departments are, well, building departments. I don't see this as your battle, so I don't think that you should be fighting it. If the building department wants you to hire engineers, hire them, bill the owner, and move on to the next one.
R
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You're probably right. I'm going to try to call someone down there today. I have little more than the "yellow pages" though to find someone.
Thanks
wrote:

I read somewhere that Dade is giving you an initial review and a follow-up included in the permit price. All subsequent reviews cost the owner and are payable up front before the subsequent reviews. Maybe they're trying to make up for the shortfall with the downturn in the economy.
You're starting out in a hole picking up a project that's already been submitted. You really have no way of verifying what happened in the first go round. Owner's have been known to fudge facts, and building departments are, well, building departments. I don't see this as your battle, so I don't think that you should be fighting it. If the building department wants you to hire engineers, hire them, bill the owner, and move on to the next one.
R
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"Chandler Knowles"> wrote:

Thats true. All risers now have to be designed by a licensed pro and the going rate of what you described, for plumbing, is in the neighborhood of around $350.00. Regarding the rejections (bounce), there can be 5 or more rounds of this sort of thing before its said and done. Normally, the plans examiners do not complete the plan examination when they find an error or certain amount of errors. They wait til you resubmit then find more stuff wrong. This is endlessly frustrating but things are what they are. FWIW, I recently received 19 pages of rejections on a large (6000 sf) residential remodel. Believe it or not one of the rejected items was that the scale was not noted on the foundation plan, but there it was right there in the titleblock as big as stuttgart like its supposed to be.
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Those of us in North Florida tend to think of South Florida as another state if not another world. I spoke with one outfit that has represented chains of stores in that area and was told of a Sears store that was closed rather than go through all the BS generated in trying to add on to the store. I can certainly relate to that. I do not believe that I can manage the permitting process from this end of the state and recommended that a Dade County local be hired -- or the store closed.
Our Codes provide for a licensed MEP professional to design systems of his trade with a value of $100k or less. It also states that commercial remodeling jobs of $25k or less do not require an architect's seal.
I know of the problems after Hurricane Andrew 12 years ago but going from one extreme to the other is not the answer. Requiring engineers for every little MEP issue is, to me, like requiring that an architect draw plans to a chicken coop.
I predict we will eventually collapse under the weight of our own bureaucracy which is never large enough to satisfy the 'crats and those that think life should be perfect and have guarantees.
"Chandler Knowles"> wrote:

Thats true. All risers now have to be designed by a licensed pro and the going rate of what you described, for plumbing, is in the neighborhood of around $350.00. Regarding the rejections (bounce), there can be 5 or more rounds of this sort of thing before its said and done. Normally, the plans examiners do not complete the plan examination when they find an error or certain amount of errors. They wait til you resubmit then find more stuff wrong. This is endlessly frustrating but things are what they are. FWIW, I recently received 19 pages of rejections on a large (6000 sf) residential remodel. Believe it or not one of the rejected items was that the scale was not noted on the foundation plan, but there it was right there in the titleblock as big as stuttgart like its supposed to be.
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Well, thats exactly what has happened, the entire bottom fell out over the past 2 years and those folks don't know which way is up. Andrew, back in 94, was the sounding of the death knell but the thing continued on out of shear willpower of the designers and builders in spite of the ever infringing powers that be. Currently there are close to 20,000 empty houses on the ground and nobody wants to buy them. All construction has ceased and all the trades people are moving elsewhere and the rest of the place is going to hell but quick. I'm kinda glad really.
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I am remodeling a house in Dade County and I FEEL your pain.
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All plans for HC access ramps, bathrooms etc must comply to all ADA requirements. You can get these on line for free with cad details. You muse also comply with all local requirements.
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Plans for Renovation or New Home construction, I can provide all of your
drafting needs at a very low cost, contact me for more information.
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"Anthony Ippolito"> wrote:

It must be torturous to live that way, eh? I've been all over this here Brown County, a rural community with more than 300 arts and crafts establishments, etc., and I have yet to see even one place that meets those so called ADA requirements. And guess what? Nobody gives a fuck and lifes a little more enjoyable when everybody isn't forced to fill their lives with the concerns of the endless supply of whiners.
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