Yellow glue or ??? for Adirondack chair?

[Lew Hodgett]

Have no direct experience with T-88; however, have used several thousand pounds of S-3 laminating resin.

From the sounds of it, appears T-88 is loaded with some type of filler(s) which would mean getting the alcohol absorbed into the mix may require a lot of elbow grease.

As far as clean up is concerned, nothing short of stripping down and taking as cold a shower as you can tolerate has ever worked for me.

Solvents such as lacquer thinner, acetone, white vinegar, etc, never worked very well for me.

A scrub brush with Boraxo and cold water gets off the heavy stuff until you hit the shower.

Lew

[clare]

Epoxy putty is different from epoxy resin.Epoxy resin CAN be thinned with alcohol or acetone but the ultimate strength can be compromised. Don't think you can thin epoxy putty very easily, but I could be wrong.

[Steve Turner]

I wouldn't expect any solvent that was meant to thin any given resin to require *any* elbow grease, filler or no; I would expect it to melt right in. I figure if it ain't gonna dissolve the resin then you shouldn't use it, and it wouldn't surprise me if the mixture wound up coagulating.

Well I wasn't so much talking about getting it off *me* as I was getting it off everything else, but apart from the T-88, every other brand I've used in the past (and the few I have lying around here right now) mention lacquer thinner and/or acetone for cleanup and it's always worked for me. Even from my skin(!), but I don't like to make a habit of that. I suspect those solvents might be worse for your skin than the epoxy itself, although acetone has been a common ingredient in finger nail polish remover for eons.

[Lew Hodgett]

T-88 is listed as a structural adhesive on the SO-3 web site which as you say makes it a different animal from laminating resin.

I've always used laminating resin as a "glue" or thickened with micro-balloons as an "adhesive" with success, but then again, different horses for different courses.

Lew .

[Lew Hodgett]

SFWIW, today most nail polish removers are NOT acetone based.

As far as getting any of the ketone solvents on your skin, it is strongly suggested you don't, but as you say, small quantities probably don't hurt.

As far as uncured epoxy is concerned, you build up a sensitivity to the stuff over time, then you wake up one day with a skin rash and you are done working with epoxy.

A $5 box of latex surgical gloves from Harbor Freight solves a lot of problems when working with epoxy.

Lew

[Steve Turner]

Perhaps, but I live in a house with a wife and four daughters. There are like 17 bottles of the crap around here (two of them brand new) and they all have acetone as the primary ingredient.

[Lee Michaels]

"Steve Turner" wrote

LOL Do you need to take an anti estrogen? LOL

[Steve Turner]

You got that right - it's called run out to the shop and hide! :-)

[Prof Wonmug]

Well, the job is done. Overall, I think I did about an average job.

There was one small end-grain joint. The pre-gluing was probably a good idea there. It soaked up the glue very quickly. Unfortunately, there was no way to clamp that joint, so I just tapped it with a hammer to get the old screw to seat and placed a couple of bricks to hold it down. Apparently, when I clamped the other end, I must have torqued the whole chair. Today, I discovered that it had dried with a gap of about .3". Even so, it's solid. I guess with the pre-gluing, there was enough there to span that gao in several places and this is a structural epoxy.

The other end where is split lengthwise is very solid. It's a bit discolored where I tried to wipe off the excess. I think the pre-gluing resulting is there being too much glue in the joint. I only clamped to touch, but quite a bit squirted out.

Anyway, thanks for the help. I think that is not the strongest part of the chair.

As I was working on the break, I noticed that the whole chair is wobbly. It was put together with screws and plugs, but no glue. Now the wood has dried out and pulled away from the screws. What would you say to me injecting some epoxy into the loose joints?

One big plus -- no epoxy on me or my clothes. That's a first.

[Lew Hodgett]

Contacted S-3 tech support and asked about T-88 for this application.

Took a couple of e-mails to get everybody on sasme page, but we got there.

Below is the e-mail exchange with tech support for those who are interested.

Lew ======================================================= To: System Three Resins, Inc. Technical Support

From: Lew Hodgett Saturday, September 19, 2009 6:04 AM

RE: T-88

Can you thin T-88 with denatured alcohol (5% max) to aid in penetration of say old wood?

Lew ========================================================= From: "Technical Support"

Monday, September 21, 2009

To: "Lew Hodgett"

You can thin T-88 with lacquer thinner for coating. But, it is a lousy product for this because the viscosity is too high and the molecule is too big.

A far better product is Clear Coat epoxy. ========================================================= From: Lew Hodgett Sent: Monday, September 21, 2009 12:48 PM

To: System Three Resins, Inc. Technical Support

Maybe I didn't make myself clear.

This is a structrual application on an old redwood lawn chair.

Simply wanted to reduce the viscosity of T-88 for the inital coat to improve penetration of the wood fibers, then follow up with full strength T-88 to complete the broken joint repair.

Good or bad idea?

Lew ========================================================= From: "Technical Support"

Monday, September 21, 2009

To: "Lew Hodgett" Date: Monday, September 21, 2009 1:01 PM

We think that doing what you suggest is not necessary.

If you do it you'll have to wait at least three to four days for all the solvent to evaporate.

Then you'll have to sand the remaining epoxy.

Tests that we've done over the years show that almost no matter what technique you use the wood breaks before the epoxy.

If you like apply a coat of T-88, wait a couple of hours and then apply more and close the joint this will approximate what you propose without all the time and work. =========================================================

[Prof Wonmug]

Interesting exchange. Thanks for going to the trouble to check it out and post back.

It looks like I did almost exactly what they suggested, albeit without knowing what I was doing. I *tried* to dilute it with alcohol. When that failed, I just applied it anyway, waited about an hour, and applied it full strength.

[Prof Wonmug]

I do have one more question.

While I was repairing the broken arm, I noticed that almost every joint is loose. I am wondering if there is any PM I can do sush as trying to inject some epoxy into some of the loose joints to reinforce them.

The problem is that while they are loose, there is not much space. I'm thinking that about as likely to make it harder to repair when it does eventually give way.

I think my best bet it to leave it alone and deal with any breakage as it happens.

Comments?

[Lew Hodgett]

You indicated that this chair is held together with fasteners.

One approach would be to get #10-#12 coarse threaded pan head stainless steel self tapping sheet metal screws and replace old fasteners one for one.

Self tapping sheet metal screws do well in soft woods like redwood.

YMMV

Lew

[Prof Wonmug]

It is held together with standard wood screws, countersunk, and plugged. I would have to drill out the plugs, remove the screws (that part would be easy, I imagine), reattach with the new screws, and then make new plugs. That sounds like a lot of work.

[Lew Hodgett]

Depends on how much the chair means to you/yours.

Lew

[clare]

Dissassemble completey and use as pattern to make new parts over the winter. If there is a real "attachment" to the old one you could repair the holes while it is apart and re-assemble it along with the new one (or 2, or 3, or)

[Steve Turner]

I've done that many times; practically every chair repair I've ever done I've resorted to complete (or near complete) disassembly. It's like a slippery slope with me; I can't stand loose joints in a chair. I'd much rather take it all apart and do it right than attempt some kind of glue injection approach, and having it all apart makes it easy to make patterns for fresh new builds.

[Lew Hodgett]

I have a question.

Unless you really have a love affair with the chair, wouldn't you be farther ahead if:

A) You purchased new chairs?

B) Built news chairs using a plan with a better design or at least better suited to your usage?

Just curious.

Lew

[Prof Wonmug]

I offered to buy her a new chair. She wants that one because her son made it for her.

See answer to (a).

I'm looking for the easiest way to prolong the life a little.

If I get some spare time (unlikely), I might just take it all apart and reassemble it.

What's the best way to open joints that are loose but not falling apart? Just wait until they do fall apart?

[Steve Turner]

Not at the mass-produced quality level typically seen these days.

These have all been antique chairs with fairly decent design, but with the old hide-glue joints that just can't stand up to the rigors of time. It's amazing how many friends and relatives can come out of the woodwork when they've heard you have the ability to fix old furniture. I've probably rebuilt a dozen or more old chairs that used to belong to Aunt Edith or next door neighbor Bart's grandpappy.