Wow, Popular Magazined advises dangerous procedures

[Leon]

I just read an article by Glen D Huey of Popular Woodworking and he advises not using push stick or pads when using ht jointer. He advises to use rubber coated gloves. While I partially subscribe to not using push stick and or pads when using the jointer to straighten the "edge" of a wide board, the photographs show him wearing rubber coated cloves while surfacing the face of a board on the jointer. He claims it gives him more feel for knowing when the knives are hitting high spots. Personally I use my ears and push pads. What feel is he going to have after the board he is surfacing, shatters?

this is just plain stupid. I do not care who you are and what safety measures you take, the odds are against you and sooner or later you can or will have an accident. While he does warn of certain dangerous practices while wearing gloves, those concerns are a moot point if you are using a push pad.

[Greg G]

Wow. I concur. Not that it matters... Convenience is hardly a consideration in lieu of the possible loss of digits/flesh.

Greg G.

[Swingman]

"Leon" wrote

One of my supplier's reps has the first joints of three fingers on one hand basically nonexistent from just such an accident on a jointer (aptly named in this unfortunate instance).

The "thickness" of the work piece, regardless of how thick when 'face jointing', is something I personally NEVER rely upon to protect me from the jointer blades. That specific task on the jointer is one of the reason why I own two, count'em - 2, Grrrippers ... and use them.

PW, although having some good stuff between its pages, is just another example of not believing/taking at face value what you read, see, or hear in this, the age of the idiocracy.

[J T]

Thu, Jan 17, 2008, 3:12pm (EST+5) [e-mail] (Leon) doth sayeth: I just read an article by Glen D Huey of Popular Woodworking and he advises not using push stick or pads when using ht jointer.

Well, you know,if stupid was a crime, half the population would be in jain. Just a shame he's trying to convert people to being stupid too. I'm with you, on edge no push stick (unless it's very narrow), and push sticks and/or push pad otherwise.

JOAT

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[Greg G]

IIRC, Sam Maloof had a similar accident with a jointer that resulted in the loss of several fingertips to the joint. Although watching him work, would have guessed the accident occurred at the bandsaw.

Greg G.

[Frank Boettcher]

Face jointing without push pads? Why that's just plain dumb. And why does one need to know when the knives are hitting the high spots? You run it through, turn it over and if it hasn't cleaned up you go again. You're trying to create a flat plane, not find high spots.

Frank

[Joe]

Doesn't Maloof freehand on the bandsaw? That's an operation that makes me shudder just thinking about it. I guess it comes down to what's comfortable for one, may/will not be comfortable for all.

Jc

[SonomaProducts.com]

I stand convicted. I got used to doing just that exact manuever for that exact reason after I started using rubber faced gloves. I really like using them on the table saw too. I must admit my balls do crawl up inside a bit at the jointer whenever I do it. I have had others in the shop comment and I just shrugged it off.

Now that I think about it, one of my main saftey teaching statements is to say"Always think about what would happen if the board suddenly vanished. Where are your hands? What would happen?" This keeps me from pushing behind the TS or bandsaw blade, that's where I've seen the most problems. But this thread just convinced me... I'm an idiot. Never again.

ThanKs all.

[B A R R Y]

Maybe.

I've jointed stock that way with a major difference, no effort is exerted on the infeed side once at least 6" clears the cutterhead.

Most of the time, I use push blocks. The times I don't are when the stock is thick and heavy.

With or without blocks, once the stock passes the blades, both of my hands are on the outfeed side of the machine. I'm PULLING the work across the cutterhead. If my hand slips it goes AWAY from the blades.

A side benefit to pulling stock over a jointer is that the stock is always referenced to the outfeed surfaces, and the operator can't unintentionally rock the board as it moves.

[Leon]

BUT that is if every thing goes well. If every thing goes well no precautions would need to be observed. What happens if the board you are running through shatters or the cutters hit an embedded nail or a knot?

The article provides pictures of thin stock.

You really need something and more than a glove between your hand the jointer cutters should the board not remain in tact.

[EXT]

Having destroyed a number of pushsticks on a table saw, I find it cheap insurance to make or buy more if they save my fingers. I always try to keep fingers away from sharp edges, particularly powered sharp edges. I still have all 10 after over 30 years as a woodworker.

[B A R R Y]

My hands would move away from the blades.

I think his pictures are dangerous. My hands are on the outfeed side, moving away from the cutter. I don't know how many more times I should type that my hands are moving away from the cutter, and are not over the blades.

Basic safety = the natural momentum of the motion takes the flesh towards safety, not danger.

[Leon]

Agreed, and I do not have so much problem with your hands on the out feed side but they are on the in feed side for a period of time.

[Dave]

I am in agreement with regard to face planing on the jointer. I don't want my hands anywhere near those cutters, so push pads are the answer. I do wear mechanic's gloves that have rubber gripping surfaces, but I only use gloved hands for edge jointing, not face planing. It is amazing to me how often publications illustrate unsafe shortcuts. The worst examples I see are on the DYI shows on television. On occasion they actually wear safety glasses, but I seldom see them wearing hearing protection. I saw a show recently where they are building a log home. The "Star" was helping screen in the porch. He was ripping a board on a contractor saw without the blad guard when the host approached. He looked up and was talking while ripping. I could see the board rise up and start to kick back. He just caught it in time.

Regards, Dave G.

[Tanus]

I don't own a jointer, and I've never used one.

But this has me curious. Pulling stock through makes sense after a point. But you have to get to that point where there is some stock on the outfeed table.

I would assume that with a piece that's

4' long, you'd push from a safe distance until you have enough wood on the outfeed to be able to shift your grip and pull from there.

Would that be a correct and safe way to do it?

[Jeff]

If humans were meant to face joint, they wouldn't have evolved the capacity to make thickness planers...

[Leon]

Yes

[Leon]

Care to support that comment, keeping in mind 1 face of the board should be flattened before the other is introduced to the thickness planer?

[SonomaProducts.com]

Jointing well, both edge and face, is a learned art. The machine looks so bulky and basic but the slightest differences in technique make a huge difference. You want to get some down pressure on the outfeed side shortly after the material passess onto that side. For face joint outfeed is the reference surface that controls the plane of the cut if things are working correctly. In edge jointing, it and the fence are equally important.

Everyone develops their own technique and the length and heft of the material makes a difference too.

Yes, pulling can kind of be effective but the real key is consistency in pressure and speed across the entire span of the cut.

If you switch from a push to a pull at the cost of loosing consistency you will be able to find the wave (or worse) in the face surface.

The strangest th> Le> >>> IMHO =A0this is just plain stupid.

[Brian Henderson]

Pushsticks are disposable, make them by the dozens because they will come into contact with the spinning blade. That's what they're there for, to get closer to the blade than any rational person would ever allow their fingers to be.

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