wood screws?

[Leon]

And Dry wall screws are about half way between the screws you are complaining about and the McFeeleys square drive screws.

[Morris Dovey]

Justifiably so. If you've never had a McFeely's catalog, you should get one even if just for reference. These guys have tucked a lot of generally useful information (tables, diagrams, and prose) into their slim (less than 100 page) catalog. If you use square drive, or are thinking about it, you owe it to yourself to at least read this one.

Mr. Ray is also the cover model for all their catalogs - you've been warned! (-:

[Jim Ray]

Oops, my "cover" is blown!

Thanks for your kind words,

Jim Ray, President McFeely's Square Drive Screws

[Brian]

Interesting. I have had the opposite experience with drywall screws. In fact, this past weekend I broke the philips head drill bit in a drywall screw, but the screw remained intact. The drywall screws are definitely harder than the drill bits, because I go through those bits like nobody's business.

Brian.

[Mike G]

Visit the McNealy's site and get their catalog. They are, unless I am out and in desperate need, the only screws I use. Haven't had one fail on me yet.

[RTH]

Can't go wrong with the screws avail from McFleely's.

[Leon]

Dry wall screws are too brittle for regular woodworking and for most practical purposes too small in gauge. I think we have all used them at one time or another until we learned to use the square drive screws.

[Larry Blanchard]

There are some screws for constuction work that have a similar thread and head as real drywall screws. They are quite sturdy. Could you be getting the two confused?

[Jay Windley]

That's a good one! Reminds me of a pipe organ builder who called particle board "compressed oatmeal".

--Jay

[Jay Windley]

Dang, I thought I invented that technique. :-) Of course I discovered it out of foolish necessity -- instead of having a neatly organized rack of drill bits clearly labelled according to diameter, I had a bin of randomly sized bits rattling around together. Finding a bit to drill a pilot hole was a matter of holding the screw up to the light with a bit in front of it to see if I could still see threads behind the bit.

Years later, as an engineer, I made the mistake of drilling a 0.2500 hole in aluminum for a 0.2500 steel dowel pin. The test fit worked great -- once.

0.2504 is a good diameter for a 0.2500 dowel pin. Nothing like empirical engineering to keep you out of trouble.

--Jay

[Mike G]

Ooop's; that's Mcfeely's. Sorry about that

[mttt]

Run, don't walk - to McFeely's web site. Buy their screws and a couple of square drive bits. You will never worry about it again.

[Gregg Germain]

:>

:> I'm making and 5 out of the 10 screws twisted apart. Are these things that :> bad? If so what brand of wood screws should I get and where? That is : totally

: Run, don't walk - to McFeely's web site. : Buy their screws and a couple of square drive bits. : You will never worry about it again.

What does the square drive have to do with the phenomenon of the screws twisting apart?

--- Gregg

My woodworking projects:

Replicas of 15th-19th century nautical navigational instruments:

of my 82 year old Herreshoff S-Boat sailboat:

FAQ with photos:

"Improvise, adapt, overcome." [e-mail] Smithsonian Center for Astrophysics Phone: [phone]

------------ And now a word from our sponsor ------------------ Want to have instant messaging, and chat rooms, and discussion groups for your local users or business, you need dbabble!

-- See

----

[Jim Ray]

Gregg,

Actually - nothing!

The reason almost everyone is recommending Square Drive screws is that they were originally designed for production environments like furniture factories or even Henry Ford's Model A assembly line in the 30's where breakage is not just an aggravation, it can stop production. (Not to minimize the impact that a broken screw has on any woodworker.)

While I can't speak to the strength standards of other fastener suppliers, I can tell you that we spec our Square Drive screws for higher torque strength than common screws. In fact, as has been reported here and elsewhere, many of the square drive screws sold in BORG's are not much better than the slotted screws that they replaced on the shelf. Since the store manager really doesn't know the difference, the fact that the screws he orders use that "new-fangled" square drive is good enough (but quite possibly not good enough for the customer). As you figured out, the drive type is immaterial to the screw strength - there are some very high quality screws with Phillips recesses, torx recesses, tri-wing recesses, etc. The key to screw strength is the steel used and the heat treating process. That's why is is worth knowing your supplier!

HTH

Jim Ray, President McFeely's Square Drive Screws

[alexy]

Why not soap or paste wax? I've had good luck with both (I think, unless you tell me that the screws are all corroding away now).

[DJ Delorie]

Soap has water, makes screws rust.

Most car/paste waxes have silicone, which interferes with the finish.

If you have a good silicone-free wax that you use for wood finishing, you could probably use that.

[Rob]

It sounds like I'm not alone. I too have found a drastic drop in woodscrew quality. Fortunately I'm from Canada and we've had Square Drive ( Robertson) screws for as long as I can remember. I've been using them for 40 years and sure, you may break one or two a month, but I can also break a 5/16th bolt if I'm not carefull. The influx of cheap screws ( I think they're 50% zinc and 50% aluminum) started around the time the BORG stores came to Canada. I only purchase Scrulox wood screws

They're sold all over NorthAmerica and are no more expensive than the cheap junk.

[Leon]

Aw Mike, I bet McNeeleys is the wholesale name of McFeeleys.. ;~)

[John Crea]

Soap sucks up moisture, and that can ultimately corrode away the screws

John

[Leon]

The square drive screws are stronger. But a way to think about it is that the fit between the screw and the drive bit is so secure that the screw has to be strong to keep from breaking "every" time. With Philips head the bit slips easily when the screw gets tight. Not so with McFeeleys square drive screws. Those screws will normally stall your drill when they have gone as far as they are going to go.

That said, McFeeleys screws are a consistent high quality screw. Man that brings another thought to mind.... Nevermind... The improvement centers sell square drive and or combo Deck Screws and while these are stronger than the common plastic packaged screw, they are still inferior in strength. Those are OK for relative soft lumber but forget even those when it comes to furniture construction.

Lastly, McFeeleys screws are CHEAP when compared to those plastic bagged screws. Start using quality square drive screws and you will no longer complain about broken screws or bits slipping. It will be something you no longer have to think or worry about and you have taken the next step to becoming a better woodworker.