Wide shelving advice needed

Tearing out sagging shelves in a 10ft. by 6ft. pantry. Would jike to put 18" deep shelves on the back wall. These would not be "cabinet" quality construction.
So, rip 18" wide plywood? Particle board? Bisquit join solid lumber? Any thoughts appreciated.
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On Monday, February 10, 2020 at 6:21:15 PM UTC-5, Ivan Vegvary wrote:

Is the back wall 10' or 6'?
What is the distance between supports?
18" shelves seem pretty deep for a pantry. Hard to reach the back of the upper shelves. 16" (still deep) allows for 3 shelves per 48" length. Of course, I don't know your layout, so I don't know your cut plan.
Edging on whatever you use will prevent sagging.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=_VRUAOgR1gA

The following is probably way overkill for a pantry, but it's what I did in my garage. 3/4" plywood, 2 x 3 framing and 1 x 2's made from plywood strips used as cleats along the walls. With edge supports front and rear, these shelves won't ever sag. The side shelves are 16" deep, the rears are 20", but they are for storing large heavy items, not typical pantry stuff.
https://i.imgur.com/QmnSJcA.jpg
https://i.imgur.com/0v44CJq.jpg
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Thanks DerbyDad. Gooe advise. The back wall is the 10ft. length. Like your garage shelves.
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On 2/10/2020 7:19 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:

If this is a pantry one of the considerations is cleanliness. While solid shelve are impressive they can collect material on the shelves and in the corners.
I have used the wire shelves for my closets, They are open and do not create pockets of dead air as a solid shelf does. While I have fixed installation with them fastened to the walls, you could also make them adjustable.
I put shelves in a large closet in with a couple of hours work and minimum debris.
This is similar to what I used in my closets. SuperSlide 144 in. W x 16 in. D x 1 in. H White Ventilated Wall Mounted Shelf Cost 26.98 at Home Depot.
The prince is comparable to using plywood shelving.
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The Sagulator: https://www.woodbin.com/calcs/sagulator/
HTH
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On Tue, 11 Feb 2020 02:28:44 +0000, Spalted Walt

Highly recommended.
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On Mon, 10 Feb 2020 15:21:12 -0800 (PST), Ivan Vegvary

I used bifold closet doors on standard track type shelf brackets.
My second choice would be baltic (russian) plywood - 5/8 or 3/4 inch
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On Monday, February 10, 2020 at 3:21:15 PM UTC-8, Ivan Vegvary wrote:

Solid is the strongest, and you have the option to put a pretty wood on the leading edge. Knotty softwood is the inexpensive way to go (vinyl surface can be applied so the occasional leaky can won't hurt the wood). Biscuits are good.
Particle board will creep-sag with time, don't believe the 'sagulator' predictions. Plywood is weaker than solid wood (half the grain runs the wrong way).
Uprights in plywood (it's tough) but be sure the glue is exterior; spills happen. If you can stagger shelves, so the dados don't thin the uprights, that's a win.
A full-gallon pickle jar is under 12 inches.
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Which actually makes it stronger.
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On 2/11/2020 8:39 AM, Scott Lurndal wrote:

Scratching head...

Stronger and dimensionally stable. Much, much, much less likely to split along the grain.
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wrote:

Or "cup". I like Baltic plywood - higher ply count - and hardwood (generally birch) all the way through. More expensive too.
I really like my bifold door shelves. They are a box structure - VERY stiff. Light weight too. Most of mine are Luan/mahogany faced but hardboard faced works just as well - they have a cardboard honeycomb in them to help make them even more rigid.
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wrote:

Finding a ten foot long door might be a bit pricy though.
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wrote:

Make 1 out of 2 short ones - not easy but doable
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wrote:

They make good shelves as long as you do not hit hard with the edge of a can.
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wrote:

All of my garage/shop shelves are doors - in use fie well over 10 yeaers - holding tools, supplies, car parts, etc and I have yet to damage one. I'm not the bull in a chinashop type, but I do USE my stuff. As $2 each from the local ReStore they were the cheapest I could come up with. I used them to build the base for the building table for buildingthe plane too. It was EXTREMELY rigid and light weight at the same time We used 2 layers of 3/4" MDF glued together for the top surface - 4X16 feet
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On Tuesday, February 11, 2020 at 6:39:07 AM UTC-8, Scott Lurndal wrote:

Tougher, resistant to splitting, yes. Stronger in the shelf-sag sense, no. Sagulator gets this right.
Shelves need compressive strength in the top surface, and tensile strength in the bottom surface (knots on top are less troublesome than on bottom, for instance). Plywood has, on bottom surface, a very thin veneer of good high-tensile strength wood, backed by a thicker layer with the grain running the wrong way.
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On 2/11/2020 1:21 PM, whit3rd wrote:

Followed by grain running "in the right direction". In fact there is more "in the right direction" plies then the wrong. If that means anything.
FWIW, with out proper support solid wood will sag also. Solid wood is OK for short spans.
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On 2/11/2020 3:41 PM, Leon wrote:

...
Only that it's somewhat more rigid in the direction of the longitudinal plies than the other...but it's still less than solid wood longitudinal of the same species.
From US FPL Handbook Chap 12 on mechanical properties a summary table shows Doug fir modulus of elasticity as 1.98x10^6 lb/insq whereas plywood is 1.01-1.24 or only about half. Since difference in deflection of two pieces of same size and species is only the effect of the different E as the geometrical factor is the same, the computed sag is directly proportional to the inverse of the E. IOW, the sag for those two is almost 2X for ply vis a vis solid of same dimension.
<https://www.fpl.fs.fed.us/documnts/fplgtr/fplgtr190/chapter_12.pdf
Sagulator gave 0.11" for "Plywood, fir" and while Doug fir wasn't one of the firs it gives specifically, they all were less (altho not by factor of 2 which does seem somewhat excessive by common experience). It doesn't have any other plywood to compare against.
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On Tuesday, February 11, 2020 at 6:46:01 PM UTC-5, dpb wrote:

:
f-sag

is

And just about any kind of edging on just about any kind of wood makes all those specs moot. ;-)
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On 2/11/2020 8:00 PM, DerbyDad03 wrote:

No, it does not.
All it does is change the geometry somewhat but the effect is also easily calculated. sagulator has the option to add the edging.
What you can't see in it, unfortunately, is just what data it is using for the materials properties. I don't recall whether it has the ability to input the desired properties manually or not.
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