Tearing out sagging shelves in a 10ft. by 6ft. pantry. Would jike to put 18" deep shelves on the back wall. These would not be "cabinet" quality construction.
So, rip 18" wide plywood? Particle board? Bisquit join solid lumber?
Any thoughts appreciated.
On Monday, February 10, 2020 at 6:21:15 PM UTC-5, Ivan Vegvary wrote:
Is the back wall 10' or 6'?
What is the distance between supports?
18" shelves seem pretty deep for a pantry. Hard to reach the back of the
upper shelves. 16" (still deep) allows for 3 shelves per 48" length. Of
course, I don't know your layout, so I don't know your cut plan.
Edging on whatever you use will prevent sagging.
The following is probably way overkill for a pantry, but it's what I did in
my garage. 3/4" plywood, 2 x 3 framing and 1 x 2's made from plywood strips
used as cleats along the walls. With edge supports front and rear, these
shelves won't ever sag. The side shelves are 16" deep, the rears are 20",
but they are for storing large heavy items, not typical pantry stuff.
If this is a pantry one of the considerations is cleanliness. While
solid shelve are impressive they can collect material on the shelves
and in the corners.
I have used the wire shelves for my closets, They are open and do not
create pockets of dead air as a solid shelf does. While I have fixed
installation with them fastened to the walls, you could also make them
I put shelves in a large closet in with a couple of hours work and
This is similar to what I used in my closets.
SuperSlide 144 in. W x 16 in. D x 1 in. H White Ventilated Wall Mounted
Shelf Cost 26.98 at Home Depot.
The prince is comparable to using plywood shelving.
On Monday, February 10, 2020 at 3:21:15 PM UTC-8, Ivan Vegvary wrote:
Solid is the strongest, and you have the option to put a pretty wood on the leading edge.
Knotty softwood is the inexpensive way to go (vinyl surface
can be applied so the occasional leaky can won't hurt the wood). Biscuits are good.
Particle board will creep-sag with time, don't believe the 'sagulator' predictions. Plywood
is weaker than solid wood (half the grain runs the wrong way).
Uprights in plywood (it's tough) but be sure the glue is exterior; spills happen. If you
can stagger shelves, so the dados don't thin the uprights, that's a win.
A full-gallon pickle jar is under 12 inches.
Or "cup". I like Baltic plywood - higher ply count - and hardwood
(generally birch) all the way through. More expensive too.
I really like my bifold door shelves. They are a box structure - VERY
stiff. Light weight too. Most of mine are Luan/mahogany faced but
hardboard faced works just as well - they have a cardboard honeycomb
in them to help make them even more rigid.
All of my garage/shop shelves are doors - in use fie well over 10
yeaers - holding tools, supplies, car parts, etc and I have yet to
damage one. I'm not the bull in a chinashop type, but I do USE my
stuff. As $2 each from the local ReStore they were the cheapest I
could come up with. I used them to build the base for the building
table for buildingthe plane too. It was EXTREMELY rigid and light
weight at the same time We used 2 layers of 3/4" MDF glued together
for the top surface - 4X16 feet
On Tuesday, February 11, 2020 at 6:39:07 AM UTC-8, Scott Lurndal wrote:
Tougher, resistant to splitting, yes. Stronger in the shelf-sag sense, no.
Sagulator gets this right.
Shelves need compressive strength in the top surface, and tensile strength
in the bottom surface (knots on top are less troublesome than on bottom, for instance).
Plywood has, on bottom surface, a very thin veneer of good high-tensile strength wood,
backed by a thicker layer with the grain running the wrong way.
Followed by grain running "in the right direction". In fact there is
more "in the right direction" plies then the wrong. If that means anything.
FWIW, with out proper support solid wood will sag also. Solid wood is
OK for short spans.
Only that it's somewhat more rigid in the direction of the longitudinal
plies than the other...but it's still less than solid wood longitudinal
of the same species.
From US FPL Handbook Chap 12 on mechanical properties a summary table
shows Doug fir modulus of elasticity as 1.98x10^6 lb/insq whereas
plywood is 1.01-1.24 or only about half. Since difference in deflection
of two pieces of same size and species is only the effect of the
different E as the geometrical factor is the same, the computed sag is
directly proportional to the inverse of the E. IOW, the sag for those
two is almost 2X for ply vis a vis solid of same dimension.
Sagulator gave 0.11" for "Plywood, fir" and while Doug fir wasn't one of
the firs it gives specifically, they all were less (altho not by factor
of 2 which does seem somewhat excessive by common experience). It
doesn't have any other plywood to compare against.
No, it does not.
All it does is change the geometry somewhat but the effect is also
easily calculated. sagulator has the option to add the edging.
What you can't see in it, unfortunately, is just what data it is using
for the materials properties. I don't recall whether it has the ability
to input the desired properties manually or not.
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