I've be trying to flatten a short piece of yellow pine 2x12 CCA that I've had around for a while and just found the use of. I didn't think it would be too tough a job.
Not having a power planer I've been working on it with a #5, and a #4 (both recently tuned up and sharp) but the only thing that cuts it is my low angle block plane. This stuff is like planing marble--the 45% planes just slide over the top. The low angle cuts pretty well, but leaves a choppy surface.
Anybody here know why yellow pine gets so frekkin' hard? I'm gonna haf ta find another board.
They cut really thin curlies in anything else (well, I haven't tried aged oak, yet), so I think they are pretty sharp (SCARYied, just before use on this piece--and during). It has to do with the angle of attack, and the wood itself--plane geometry.
George noticed that I mentioned it was CCA--does the metallic content of the tx have anything to do with the hardness, or is this just badass wood? (BTW, I know that SYP is hard; my query was to reasons for this characteristic. Resins, age, tx? Combination? I'm gonna find a different board.
I thought that the SYP that was used in old flooring (maybe 75-125 years ago) is no longer commercially available except as recycled? (I have some in my 90 year old house.) Is that species still being cut? -- Igor
We have a northern non-pine that is similar to SYP - it's called Tamarack, and it has most of the bad qualities that SYP has in the way of excessive resin - which was _not_ set in drying, because you can't do that when you treat it. It has a high SG, even though it's one of the fastest-growing trees that grows here for the first 25 years , and barely capable of being dented. Great mine lagging.
I suppose everyone knows what rosin is, and what it's used for? Then there's aged rosin - amber, I think they call it.
Interesting. That may mean that 20 years ago when I did a renovation and needed a 12" x 9' strip worth of SYP to match my existing floor that I was taken -- they said they had to use recycled SYP. Material cost was $17/sq ft. IIRC. It does match well. -- Igor
There is a lot of difference between the curent syp and the old growth that was available 100+ years ago. There are a few stands left, but many are in protected areas. During the drought a couple years ago one salesman offered the tall ship I was helping on some that was being harvested from normally swampy land that was inacessible, unless you wanted to leave the equipment behind, in the mud. Our donation fell through so someone else got to play with some really nice stuff. Joe
There's precious little of that left, just as there are few stands of eastern hardwoods. But, by judicial selection, you could probably have gotten almost as near a match from a recent selection that would in a relatively short period of time be virtually indistinguishable.
What's really hard to match is the finer grain more typical of old-growth as so much now is commercially grown w/ added nutrients, etc., so that growth is much faster. This promotes larger growth ring spacing and somewhat softer lumber.
The other thing is, of course, just like w/ other lumber, the size of trees when harvested are no longer near what the old-growth timber was. Our barn dates back to just after WWI w/ all framing SYP. There are any number of 2x8 and larger of 16 to 20 ft lengths w/o a knot in them. Now you couldn't find an 8 ft 2x4.
(As a comparison, in the early 60s we built a set of grain bins and a small feed mill in the back corner of this same barn. There's still some left over framing from that in the haymow. It was Doug fir, not SYP, but there are about 20 pieces of 20-ft 2x6's of which only one has a knot....I hate to think what it would take to buy that material now... :)
SYP flooring is still widely available and still used a LOT. They must cut millions of feet of SYP every single day.
The "good stuff" is culled out very quickly and sold at premium prices off shore of here. You can still find good heartwood from selected dealers but it's tougher to find since the folks in Europe and other places really like SYP.
What we get is #2 or worse and most of that ends up in 2x6 decking or even 5/4" decking boards.
Anything of real value is exported cause of the prices.
Recycled is being used a LOT but how much recylced do you think there is ???
I suspect "most" homes that are over 50 years old have SYP > I thought that the SYP that was used in old flooring (maybe 75-125 years
Not necessarily...it depends on how good a match you wanted. SYP has very pronounced grain, and modern lumber has much more widely spaced annual rings than the slow growing stuff of old.
The sub-species known as Dade county pine is no longer cut for lumber, incidently, and that may be true of some other sub-species. Old-growth Dade county pine is harder than nails.
Yellow pine is a low altitude growing conifer. Extended growing seasons and warmer weather allows the tree to produce denser fibers with more resin. There are several different species that fall under the broad classification of "yellow pine". Contrary to some of the posts I've read in this thread, yellow pine is abundant and obtaining "clear" material is still relatively easy to do. It just depends on where you live. I live in Texas and sell framing lumber for a living. It's real common to get 2x12-24' boards with nary a knot mixed in with a bundle of #2. Nobody is taking the time anymore to separate it out. Here it's just cheap framing material.
Interesting fact, the reason YP warps and twists so much is due to the tree rotating as much as 360 degrees as it grows each and every year.
Sounds to me like you got ahold of a piece of old growth Longleaf Pine that was very full of resin. These trees can harden up like the proverbial "ironwood", especially if it was dead when cut and the log was low on the bole.
Where is this yellow pine from? Are you taking about Pinus Ponderosa commonly known as yellow pine? If so, I don't know what you mean by hard? I'm in the northwest and have used lots of yellow pine. About the only thing softer is cedar and redwood. Must be talking about some other species.
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