Strange how much you missed the point of my message. The point is that
accidents can happen no matter how safely you conduct yourself, in any
venue. I'm not going to google the subject, but I wonder how many thousands
of people in the US alone have missing fingers solely due to tablesaws.
On 3/2/2006 6:37 PM Upscale mumbled something about the following:
Personally, I think seatbelts should be removed, and the driver's seat
be placed in front of the front bumper of the car and a spike placed in
the center of the steering wheel. Might get drivers to actually pay
attention to what they are doing instead of pretending they are driving
in the Daytona 500.
On 3/2/2006 10:38 PM Leon mumbled something about the following:
As a motorcycle rider who rides 40 miles each way, to/from work, there
isn't a day that goes by that some idiot in a cage doesn't try to take
me out, either by changing lanes into me, pulling out of a side road as
I'm approaching, turning across the road in front of me, etc. 90% of
the drivers on the road are busy doing something else, reading, dialing
their cellphone, putting on makeup, plucking their eyebrows, shaving,
etc, while driving 2 ft off the bumper of the car in front of them. A
good majority of the accidents around here are someone rear-ending
another car, and I usually hear of about 5 or 6 every morning on the
radio. The biggest offenders, SUV drivers. They think they're
invulnerable and are the most likely to rearend someone (at least by my
Add another metro resident to your list of 'those who vehemently agree
with _all_ the above observations'.
Sounds like you experienced a heart-racing near miss today...
I used to ride, but after being the victim of 5 bone wrenching, high
speed rear-enders (in cars, fortunately), I gave up on the thought.
State Highway 41 was the location of 3 of them. I was forced to
conclude that bikes are a mode of transportation best reserved for
those who life a better life than I - and the track. :-\
I had 2 Japanese bikes and a Harley. I had less problems with the Harley I
greatly suspect because it was louder. I have had people bump into me while
setting at a stop light. Living in Houston I finally gave up riding.
Highway riding was the only safe riding.
That would/does drive me nuts. I've never driven a motorbike, but I've had
people repeatedly bump into me in my wheelchair. I'd guess riders on a bike
would feel much the same as I feel in a wheelchair, it's an extension of me.
Someone carelessly touching it is equivalent to someone touching me without
my permission. I've had people bump me twice, but never a third time because
I usually turn around with a snarl to chew the perpetrator out.
Brings to mind a television show that's been playing on the discovery
channel, called Canada's Worst Driver. Some of these people are *so* bad at
driving that I think the testing agent at the driving centre who passed
them, should be strung up by their short hairs.
I'm not, and I've always said that I don't think it's a bad idea,
certainly it isn't. I just said that for most people, I think it's an
unnecessary idea. If someone has X amount of money to spend on a
tablesaw, is it better to get the Sawstop and have an inferior saw, or
should you spend your money to get a much better quality saw? I vote
for the better saw. It seems to me that the Sawstop is designed for
people with a little more dollars than sense and yes, I strongly
oppose their trying to force their technology on the rest of us.
So uh, what report have you read that has indicated that the SawStop is
inferior? Which saw in particular tests out better than the SawStop that
does not cost more than the SawStop? Keeping in mind that there have been
a limited few false positives that were resolved on the SawStop, and keeping
in mind that Unisons some times have broken trunions that Delta eventually
admitted was a manufacturing problem and not a shipping problem, and
keeping in mind that some Jet saws had rip fence bar rules that were not
accurate. Some Generals have a blade clearance problem, uh, Grizzly is
much better but once had a lot of shipping problems that ultimately became a
customer problem that he had to resolve. Or should I ask, which brand has
not problems at all???
I'd say 99.99% of the accidents were from carelessness. Personally I know
of no one that is 100% careful and not careless at some time until they die.
It only has to happen once at the right time.
Again, I ask, have you ever cut yourself with a knife?
It's up to people to be careful and know when a
That has a little to do with it but I cut half my thumb off after the cut,
after walking away from the saw to lay the board down, and after turning the
saw off. You really don't know of all the possibilities nor can you be
prepared for them 100% of the time. In my case, the SawStop would have
prevented my injury.
Well hopefully you will never need to test your opinion.
On the other side, having something like that
Like putting a LOADED gun up to your head and pulling the trigger because
you know the safety is on. Like crashing your vehicle into a concrete wall
because you know that it has air bags. I really do not think that some one
would be careless around a blade spinning at 3500 rpm. The visual would be
enough to scare you.
No, a splitter can help prevent a kick back but is absolutely no guarantee.
If the splitter prevents a kick back and you realize it, its a good chance
that you made a mistake.
Still the riving knife is far superior to the splitter. It does not have to
be removed for many cuts that would require the removal of the splitter.
While the riving knife is no guarantee against kick back either, it can be
used in more instances than a standard splitter and it typically works
better because of its proximity to the blade.
Not hard to do at all. But every one on this group, actually everyone is
capable of making a mistake at any time.
How much do you want to bet that most of
Do you use a standard blade guard when cutting dado's?
Good luck Brian and don't take this the wrong way but you seem to be a
little naive as to how many different ways an accident can happen given the
numerous operations that can be performed on a TS. While it is totally your
decision and opinion that you are personally careful enough to deem the Saw
Stop not worth the money you have pointed out to me more than a couple of
instances where you are absolutely wrong. Again, be careful.
Sure, but I don't go out and buy safety knives that go dull when
touched with human skin. You live and learn lessons.
A tablesaw is a dangerous piece of equipment. Always has been, always
will be. That's not to say that a Sawstop might not be a helpful
addition, if you choose to use it, but it's also an expensive addition
that really isn't worth the cost IMO. As you say, most accidents are
from carelessness, people need to take some personal responsibility
for their own safety and security.
And cars are so safe now that people aren't paying attention to how
they drive and that causes accidents.
So? I certainly don't see the nanny-state needing to mandate that *I*
have to pay extra for my equipment because someone else is being
Absolutely. Of course, I retrofit my saw with an overhead guard so I
can use it for virtually any cut and I have a removeable splitter for
exactly these instances. But then again, we both agree that the
failure to use proper and reasonable care is key in most accidents. I
use care. Do you?
Did yo know how to properly handle a knife when you cut your self? Does a
knife that goes dull exist?
>You live and learn lessons.
My point exactly.
Exactly. For many people, going the extra step of spending a a lottle more
money on the SawStop will be taking an extra step towards their own safety
Do you really be lieve that cars are so safe now that people aren't paying
attention to how they drive? Not paying attention to how one drives has
ALWAYS been a problem. The safety of the car has absolutely nothing to do
with not paying attention.
What about the nanny-state that mandates the airbags in your car, that
requires you to carry insurance on your car. Simply a different piece of
Because some of my more expensive automobiles have more air bags than my
less expensive cars my insurance is cheaper proportionally on those more
expensive vehicles. If every one had a protection device that prevented
hospital visits perhaps my medical insurance would also be cheaper,
ultimately helping the saw to pay for itself.
Um the overhead guard, is not a standard guard. You paid extra for that.
But then again, we both agree that the
Agreed, and I yes I do use care and have been fortunate enough in the last
16 years that that has been enough.
Leon.... buddy.... let it go.
I learned a long time ago that people will do as they will. If the
technology is available to make woodworking or anything else we have in
our lives safer for me and you, then we will probably use it when we
find we need to or when we can make sense of the timing, dollars, and
I intend to take woodworking into retirement. However, I am no so
stupid as to believe that in my 70s I will be as mentally sharp or
physically capable as I am now. I would like that additional safety of
knowing that if I have a senior moment, or a twinge in a joint at an
inopportune time I won't lose a digit to one of my tools. I know you
feel the same way.
Other impairments are on me now, though. I get too tired meeting
deadlines, try to do too many things at once, and take for granted what
I am doing sometimes and don't pay close enough attention. I
understand what the intellectuals of the group collective are saying,
too... no such thing as an accident... all "accidents are
preventable"... if you can't do any better than that perhaps you
shouldn't be using tools... etc. Heard it all before. Truly, in a
perfect textbook world, they are correct.
However, in my world reality raises its ugly head on occasion. Shit
happens. My fault, your fault, nobody's fault, it happens. But no
matter where the fault lies, I am pissed off when the results fall on
me. So a little cushion sounds really good to me.
I don't care about the SawStop conspiracy or the attempt on their part
to change the course of my life. We can see how far that got. So now
we are where we should be, if you want the technology, buy it. If you
don't, don't do it.
I have many years of watching people follow poor safety protocols, or
none at all. They take off safety devices, blade guards, don't wear
safety glasses, don't wear respiratory protection, use broken ladders,
and do just plain stupid stuff. When they are hurt seriously for the
first time, it helps them understand the importance of safety and
safety devices. Until that time, they are bold mofos, loudly ready to
risk life and limb on prinicpal alone, standing the high ground on the
basis of their uninjured selves as examples.
Bully for them, I say. The Darwin awards are always looking for new
candidates. I don't care about the folks that don't want any safety
equipment or devices one way or another. Similarly, I don't care if
they are hurt when they disarm/remove/ignore the things that would make
their tool usage more safe under a larger variety of conditions.
Let 'em rip, Leon. (No pun intened...) You won't make or win your
Kinda reminds me of the logic my son used to use when as a young teen
he objected to wearing a helmet and wrist guards while rollerblading
"because I'm not doing tricks, so don't plan to fall". And like the
thousands of woodworkers who haven't yet been hurt at their saws, he
has never been injured in a rollerblading accident
Alex -- Replace "nospam" with "mail" to reply by email. Checked infrequently.
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