Sounds like the same scenario that Freon has gone through in the last 20 years. IIRC DuPont holds the patent on all the current versions of Freon. Back in the early 90's and probably now, you could get the Freon much cheaper outside the US from the places that do not play fair to DuPont's patents.
Is this the real Robin Lee Speaking??? ;~)
I would say a very smart decision.
Hi Leon -
Just checked in the mirror.... and it is.
Cheers -
Rob
Are any of your employees buying those used saws? Just for the purposes of discussion, it would be interesting to know how many of them would buy those older saw while at the same time being aware of why they are up for sale.
Any of those saws a General 650-T50 or 350-T50 ? If so I might be interested in one. And considering the topic at hand, the cost of a Sawstop is out of my reach, whereas a regular tablesaw is not out of reach. For me, anyway, it's a matter of having a standard cabinet saw or not having one at all.
That "tad costly" has to be considered minimal when that accident(s) happen.
And of course, you're a business. You have a responsibility to the safety of your employees. Failure to adhere to that responsibility could cost LV dearly. I don't believe the average home owner would have the same viewpoint to safety that you're forced to adopt.
April 3 eh? Got it bookmarked. Going to be sending invitations out? Barbeque in front of the store? Any opening day specials? I'll be there to inspect.
I don't. I wasn't the one who made the comment about anonymity making people brave.
That's what I expected, but from the (purely paper) details I've seen so far it appears to be a good high-end saw at a good price.
However I would never touch one of this company's products. The gimmick is a partial solution at best (simple guards already avoid most of these problems and it does nothing to stop kickback). Trying to enforce regulation to sell their product is underhand at best.
Switch it to "sausage cutting mode". There is a switch, presumably for just this purpose.
Dave Balderstone quoted and replied:
Well, now I am really confused. You don't care, but you had to ask anyway. Just nosy?
Since I didn't post anything that required any kind of internet branded bravery, I can only assume you want my name for your Christmas list.... or maybe a long walk in the moonlight. So let me give you some real info about me. Let's not get hung up on names... I don't even care if Dave isn't your real name...
For my birthday, I would like nice steak and a good cabernet. Some roses would be nice too, you rascal. Gift certificates are always nice... I'm pretty easy to get along with.
And I did catch your earlier explusion of disbelief:
You do indeed have it wrong. Capitalism is about making money. It has nothing to do with the superiority of the product.
VHS beat out Beta. PC's outsell Macintosh.
Marketing trumps technology.
John Carls> I guess I've had it wrong all these years. I always thought capitalism had
Simple... it's supposed to be: "Cut the cheese" "Hide the sausage"
The Mike Berger entity posted thusly:
Because Sony did not pay attention to what the public wanted the most... length of recording on one tape.
Because few people wanted to access the computer through a single button. How would you like to build a hutch and sideboard using only one finger?
And misreading the public's wants is a sure road to failure.
No, you have it wrong, too. State-owned firms in a socialist system also try to make money. One might argue that private ownership of capital (capitalism) increases the focus of managers on profit relative to those working for state-owned firms, but it is a lot more complicated than saying that "capitalism is about making money". Capitalism is about who owns the capital.
Easy to get along with? Right! And, so am I if someone wants to bribe me.
True capitalism is based on enlightened self interest, with a healthy dose of moral rectitude required.
It would do well for all of you (and our present Lawyer/MBA culture) to go read Adam Smith, again, or for the first time.
Here, here. I am a dyed in the wool capitalist, but I do charity work when I can. I like money and some of the things it can buy, but I don't covet it. Our current culture seems to thing that capitalism is bad... especially if they haven't found financial success.
The self employed plumber that is a one man shop is just as much capitalist as someone like Ken Lay. Without "moral rectitude", you can see however where Ken Lay has landed along with his cohorts. But the plumber that feels like he can work harder, smarter, in a more clever fashion with less waste sees capitalism as a way to get ahead. Respect for money and the system that allows you to make it is part of capitalism.
In my reading, too many times the examples I see about how bad and unfair capitalism is to society is simple confusion about lack of ethics or integrity in the case when people have money. Lack of ethics or integrity used to get more money (or anything else) is called "greed". Capitalism is a system, a type of economic methodology. It is nothing else; if one wants to be greedy and get more money by underhanded means, this is not "capitalism". It is avarice.
Strangely, the same system that Sawstop used (an attempt to get ahead and win economic advantage) was the same system that shut down that effort. The "I'm not gonna pay for it, you can't make me pay for it, I'll cut my fingers off first" is a true sign of capitalism at work. A choice of perceived >value< was made and it ended the effort.
Hopefully, the questions of "how much would that cost change the manufacturing processes?" and "how much would it add to the cost?" On top of that, if it added too much $$$ to the bottom line to implement the govt. monitoring of the new Sawstop program, I am sure the folks listening didn't want hear more bitching and court cases about how unfair it was that one group owned the technology. Besidie, where would the money come from to implement and monitor these changes? A tax increase? Then the thinking has to come down to, "how many of those woodworkers are actually my constitients that would make me want to increase taxes, and then listen to me get skewered as a pork barrel politician?"
And just maybe.. maybe.. one of the nitwits in Washington that listened to their pitch was able to see what was going on. You may have to just go with me on that last one. Personally, I don't know how far this effort got since I have never even met or talked to anyone that knew when it was presented to Congress in any way.
And I am wondering how far it actually got. After all, I don't recall anyone here regaling us with tales of their soirre to Washington to fight the Sawstop campaign. I never signed a petition from angry woodworkers to stop Sawstop or their nefarious campaign; I never heard of any grassroots movement to stop them by an angry citizenry of woodworkers made up of "the common man". A lot of pissed off people here that don't like Sawstop or capitalism, but I never saw them on the news "speaking out" against the Sawstop conspiracy.
But just like Homer Simpson says, it is >fun< to strike a blow against the man. It may not amount to much, and you may not have actually done anything but talk about it. But it is fun. I think a lot are just as like the guy in the new Sprint commercial that is "sticking it to the man".
Robert
The biggest problem I have with it is that it's really unnecessary. A woodworker exercising reasonable caution has nothing to fear from the tablesaw, and anyone who is so terrified of it probably shouldn't be using it in the first place. There are thousands and thousands of woodworkers out there who have all of their fingers and toes after years of woodworking and they didn't need more than the guards and splitters that came with the tablesaw.
The safety saw is ridiculously expensive for what you get, and whenever it goes off, for whatever reason, it ruins your expensive saw blade, plus requires you to buy a new expensive brake insert. These things don't reset, people, you have to throw it away and start over fresh. And as you say, it doesn't do a thing against kickback and other real hazards.
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