Thickness planer snipe

[spamfree]

I know its been flogged to death, and I'm sick of looking through the archives, but I have an old cheapy Chinese 12.5" bench model that snipes everything. The in and outfeed tables are weak as worm's water and droop if I breathe on them.

Now it occurred to me that snipe always happens on the last two inches of the plank (in my case - never had snipe at the beginning) and so, as the feed rollers are two inches from the cutter head, the snipe occurs when the plank has passed the infeed roller and somehow, either the plank lifts, or the cutterhead drops when the first roller loses contact.

My feed rollers have always had difficulty feeding my planks (probably needs an adjustment, but I can't see where) and so I have always had to virtually push everything through the thing with 3x2s poking through the stand legs against a wall so I don't push the thing over.

I was thinking that to get this thing back into service (has been idle for years) I should remove the feed plates, screw a plank of melamine to the base, and perhaps remove the feed rollers, and either push material through against the rotation of the cutter head, or even gently allow the material to be slowly dragged through by the cutter head. I'm aware of the potential dangers of this system, as it will make a fine spear thrower. Any ideas, warnings, experience at this?

[RicodJour]

My idea is that you should buy a better planer and not throw good time and money at an inferior machine.

R

[Doug Miller]

In article , [e-mail] wrote: [...]

My first idea is that you are not, in fact, aware of the potential dangers, or at least not as fully aware of them as you think you are. You seem to be overlooking the fact that the feed rollers perform a second function, in addition to feeding the stock: holding it down against the base. By removing the feed rollers, you don't create *potential* dangers -- you create *actual* dangers.

Realize, too, that there is no such thing as "gently allow[ing] the material to be slowly dragged through by the cutter head." Instead, picture the material being instantly snatched into the machine by the cutter head, possibly dragging your hands along with it, and ejected at 60+ mph.

What you propose is highly dangerous. Don't do it. Better to spend your time and money on better-quality equipment.

[RayV]

I have a medium quality planer (Delta 22-580) that snipes on both ends. To be fair to Delta I never tried adjusting anything but I get by the sniping this way:

As I begin feeding the board I lift the tail end of the board slightly, as it exits the planer I lift the front end of the board slightly.

This easily prevents sniping on my planer and it may work on yours. Very light pressure upwards is all it takes, just enough to keep the board horizontal.

[Ray]

Difficulty feeding is usually caused by dirty feed rollers. Clean them and see if it feeds. I wouldn't operate without them working properly. To do so is an accident waiting to happen.

[spamfree]

Thanks for all the warnings, folks, I really was aware of the dangers, but was not thinking straight. I was imagining extremely light feeds, but of course, from past experience, that is not always predictable, as I've stalled the bloody thing once or twice, and without the counteracting feed rollers, it would have been goodnight for whatever was in the way, even brick walls, with the 40 lb planks I was working on. Maybe that's why the rollers are not adjustable, in case idiots who have my idea don't ask advice first and might adjust them away from the work.

I will try the plank of melamine and watch what happens when snipe occurs. Seems a following plank can cure it sometimes, which means the cutter head moves somehow when one of the rollers becomes unloaded.

Seems snipe can be caused by several reasons and curing one thing does not always cure the snipe. jack

[Lowell Holmes]

">snip

I have a medium quality planer (Delta 22-580) that snipes on both ends. To be fair to Delta I never tried adjusting anything but I get by the sniping this way:

As I begin feeding the board I lift the tail end of the board slightly, as it exits the planer I lift the front end of the board slightly.

This easily prevents sniping on my planer and it may work on yours. Very light pressure upwards is all it takes, just enough to keep the board horizontal.

It works on my Delta planer too! :-)

[Dave Balderstone]

That, or use a sled with consumable wood glued in a trailing position and let it take the snipe.

Usually, I just allow for snipe when I'm measuring and cutting. Part of the waste built into the project.

[C & E]

It doesn't work on my Delta TP200. Other than that the machine is a work horse for the money.

[C & E]

.

You might try filling in the underside of you in/ outfeed tables with a piece of MDF or something. That should stiffen them up for you but honestly, don't throw money at this unit. There are some adequate units available in the $200+ area. My Delta TP 200 was about that (obsolete now).

[spamfree]

What I'm going to try is screwing from the underside of the base casting a 3' x 1' piece of melamine I have. The bottom (adjustable) rollers are not much use on this machine AFAICS and the melamine will be much slipperier.

Much of my sniping was when i was working on 10' planks of 8" x 1.5" jarrah. A bit of stretching the envelope, you might say. I supported the end while I fed it in, and all was well until when I dragged the plank out the other end over my roller stand, I would get a pronounced snipe whatever I tried to do, and trying things with a 40# plank tires you out rather quickly. Not pleasant, except for the joy of the grain so exposed.

Now, most of what I want to do is some 3' lengths of this, and some 4" x 3/4" jarrah fence palings. Or even short lengths of these for my drawer sides (in another post). Of course, the thicknesser will not have as much to do now, as I have an 8" jointer to clean up the rough sawn stuff first.

Talking of this jointer, the instruction manual says the widest stuff you can work is 4". Is this a misprint? (Chinese)

jack

[Tom Veatch]

That techniques also works beautifully on my Jet 13" Planer/Molder (JPM-13CS)

Tom Veatch Wichita, KS USA

[Greg G]

Aside from really pushing the envelope of what this unit was designed to handle, it is of questionable heritage. I would be shopping for a replacement while the holiday sales are ongoing.

That said, however, you could take a shot at tuning it up. Make sure there is no play in the cutterhead bearings or the feed rollers - repair or "fix" what is necessary. Use a flat surface inserted into the planer bed (power removed), adjust the thickness adjustment until there is a small clearance, and use feeler gauges to check the clearances of the various rollers and blades - they must all be parallel to the flat surface. Clean the rollers, or replace if they are chewed up. Their diameter and resiliency are somewhat critical.

If the blades do not self-register when installing, try installing them a little less proud. In other words, set them closer to the centerline of the cutterhead. that should allow the feed rollers to get a little more bite. The rollers not only provide feed assistance, they hold the board against the bed securely.

Snipe generally occurs when a board is not held down against the planer bed by both rollers - which is when first entering or exiting the cutting/holddown/feedroller assembly. Make certain that boards fed into the unit remain above the plane of the planer bed - they must not droop AT ALL or it will snipe. Heavier and longer boards are increasingly susceptible to this. I usually lift the ends of entering and exiting boards with one finger to eliminate the snipe originating from this design "feature". If you use roller stands, they must be very carefully adjusted, under load, to be at or slightly above the planer bed. Everything must also be absolutely level; in other words, both the planer bed and the roller stands must be parallel, not slightly lower on one side or the other.

Probably means thickness, not width - what would be the point of it being a 12" planer. :-o

Good Luck,

Greg G.

[Tom Veatch]

12.5" planer and widest is 4"? Doesn't make sense. If the manual is an Chinese to English translation, maybe they mean 4" thick instead of 4" wide. IMO that would make more sense.

Tom Veatch Wichita, KS USA

[TJ]

IMO, snipe is inherent in a unit that isn't adjustable. On my old = Craftsman planer, the bed is adjustable for parallel to the cutterhead, = and the bed rollers are adjustable for height and parallel. The table = gibs are adjustable. The feed rollers, presure plate, and chipbreaker = are also adjustable, so the unit can be fine tuned to eliminate snipe. = But it really does have to be carefully tweaked to achieve a snipe-free = cut. I'm just saying having all those fine adjustments on a sturdy cast = iron machine is the key here.

With your unit, the cutterhead and feed roller bearings may be worn. = Also, the rubber surface on the rollers could be worn. If you're force = feeding the unit, you're also losing any fine tweaking that could be = applied, such as lifting the ends of the board. Also, the table might = be worn so it has a crown under the cutterhead. And there may be slop = on the cutterhead carriage or on the table support. Any little bit of = slop will give the cutterhead that slight mechanical advantage it needs = to pull up the workpiece and snipe it.

If you really are intent on salvaging the machine, I'd recommend making = a flat table for it, and replacing any roller and sleeve bearings on the = cutterhead and feed rollers.

Also check to see that there is no play in the carriage supports.

Also check and see what the height difference is, from the table, = between the feed rollers and the cutters. Having the cutters sharpened = will take a little off and may compensate for worn feed rollers.

HTH

--=20 Timothy Juvenal

[Leon]

Un less I am seriousely mistaken about "this" machine the cutter head would throw the work back out at you, not pull the wood in. Neither of my planers would do this.

[spamfree]

I wish I could, but I think I'm close to the limit of the connubial friendship, if you know what I mean.

Great advice, thanks. I'll look at all of this. Now that I have a jointer to really flatten my boards, the thicknesser is going to have a much easier life. The rollers don't look too chewed up, and seem still plyable.

Thanks Greg Sorry for the confusion, the jointer is a new 8" which will take much of my previous work away from my old thicknesser. The instruction manual on it says: "6. DO NOT perform planing operations on material shorter than 8", narrower than 3/4", wider than 4" , or thinner than 1/2".

Notwithstanding that I don't know what the difference between thinness and narrowness is, I assume this is a typo.

The jointing proscription does not include a width maximum, so I will just pretend that I am really jointing anything over 4" wide :)

jack

[spamfree]

Sorry Tom, I've confused everyone. The thicknesser can take 6" thick like all the Chinese 12" clones.

I've started to talk about my new 8" jointer. See my reply to greg.

jack

[spamfree]

planer, the bed is adjustable for parallel to the cutterhead, and the bed rollers are adjustable for height and parallel. The table gibs are adjustable. The feed rollers, presure plate, and chipbreaker are also adjustable, so the unit can be fine tuned to eliminate snipe. But it really does have to be carefully tweaked to achieve a snipe-free cut. I'm just saying having all those fine adjustments on a sturdy cast iron machine is the key here.

You wouldn't like to ship it over to me in Oz, so I can have a look at it, Tim? I promise I will send is back collect as soon as I'm satisfied :)

rubber surface on the rollers could be worn. If you're force feeding the unit, you're also losing any fine tweaking that could be applied, such as lifting the ends of the board. Also, the table might be worn so it has a crown under the cutterhead. And there may be slop on the cutterhead carriage or on the table support. Any little bit of slop will give the cutterhead that slight mechanical advantage it needs to pull up the workpiece and snipe it.

Seems to be pretty tight, actually. It has had little use, but really strenuous use. I suspect that my snipe was caused by insufficient outfeed support using heavy boards. I will try it with the melamine table inserted and much lighter, shorter boards. The silly pressed sheet steel "in" and "out" feed trays are for the scrap bin. A 3'2" melamine board will be the ticket, I hope.

table for it, and replacing any roller and sleeve bearings on the cutterhead and feed rollers.

I take it this is my melamine insert? I'll try this before I look at anything else, as I said, it all seems tight with no discernable slop in anything.

Are these the two threaded rods that raise or lower the cutter head/motor assembly? I just tried to move the motor assembly wrt the frame and it appeared as solid as a rock

feed rollers and the cutters. Having the cutters sharpened will take a little off and may compensate for worn feed rollers.

The rollers don't appear worn much. I think I was just taking too much off too wide, too long, too heavy and too hard boards. I will modify my demands and present the thing with flattened top and bottom faces, and take more, lighter cuts. I hope it works, coz her indoors thinks I've had all my birthday/christmas presents for the next ten years :)

jack

[spamfree]

'Pends what end you put it in, doesn't it?

jack