The ugly side of business - long

[Upscale]

Loan me some of your tools will you? At least until you get that Nigerian operation up and running.

[Swingman]

wrote

My two most important criteria with bill paying these days, and since I travel with a laptop and keep most permanent records on office computers, is to be able to have instant access to everything from anywhere in the world, from any connected computer, and to keep an online "master transaction" file for each account that can be accessed from either the office or on the road without the necessity of synchronizing multiple machines.

Thus I have basically evolved from paying bills through a bookkeeping program (QB), that kept tracks of bills and sent online payment instructions via an online connection to the appropriate bank account; to using the option of being able to log onto most payee's websites and "scheduling" their bill payment in advance, or doing so through my banks "online payment" feature. Either of the latter two allow me to schedule payments for the entire upcoming month for those bills which repeat, pay them as they are due, and/or depending upon cash flow ... and I can do it from any computer, blackberry device, etc.

I still use copies of bookkeeping/checkbook programs on my desktop and laptop, mainly to keep track of balances, generating reports, etc.

To keep things more or less "synchronized", I use an exceedingly simple and configurable online service called BudgetTracker, which my sole purpose for using is as a "transaction master". BudgetTracker also allows an automatically updated RSS feed, and/or calendar on my desktop of upcoming bills ...basically an automatic "tickler file" and e-mail "reminder", all for about $25/year.

(Intuit now has service called "QuickBooks Online", which I've only experimented with the Quicken version, but it appears to be a better option for business purposes than BudgetTracker, which is more for personal use, but can be configured to service either with a bit of thought.).

The "QuickBooks Online" option may be attractive providing you don't mind your financial data to be available to Intuit, by hook or by crook ... thus far I've shied away from that option.

Keeping track of all the necessary logins and passwords was a real PITA until Leon turned me on to program named "RoboForm".

I now keep the encrypted RoboForm file synchronized with my laptop, desktop, and a keychain thumb drive. It also allows me to have a separate login and randomly generated password for each site, with only one password to remember.

The upshot is that these bill paying options actually take less than 30 minutes for all business and personal bill paying chores each month, from anywhere, from any computer, and with no check writing.

Just some food for thought, but because I'm basically a one man shop as far as operations go, YMMV.

[Lee Michaels]

"Robatoy" wrote

I also got an e-mail from a company that is set up to handle all facets of my business and personal management. I will be preparing a file of all my accounts and passwords and send them off to them soon. I can suggest you try them and will post that link ...it's in Nigeria someplace... ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Unbelievable. I don't know if you are just being an asshole or you just can't read. What I am doing is similar to what you do, at least what you say you do. I am in total control and have all records at my office. I enter the data. I own it. It doesn't go anywhere. The only time they even see my data is when it comes time to do taxes. And even then, I do lots of prep work to insure that there are no surprises.

Getting an expert to advise you doesn't meant you turn over everything to them. I am much too independent to do that. Grow up.

[nailshooter41]

~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

I think without the smiley or emoticon you missed the fact he is just trying to be funny. You know he isn't sending his stuff off to somewhere in Nigeria.

Wait... unless it is in Canada somewhere...

;^)

Robert

[Robatoy]

Lee? WhatTheFuck?

[nailshooter41]

SNIP of good info

I appreciate it, too. I think your post illustrates what we as small businessmen/contractors are doing to 1) keep an accurate finger (and control) on the pulse of our small businesses, but 2) keep money in our own pockets and stay competitive.

In these uncertain economic times, I feel "live without a net". So both of the above mentioned points are very important to me. I must say, the temptation to put everything on auto pilot is strong. All vendors I use, even AMEX have auto pay features that will pay everything for me as billed.

But in the end, that would probably make me too lazy to review individual invoices for improper charges and the overall account for activity. Over the years, I have been blown away by the things that have been charged to my accounts by some of the smaller vendors so I can't get out of that habit.

Like you, I can pay all vendors that I use routinely use in about a half hour. That's not painful. I have a password encrypted file (NOT an MS product!) on my main computer that opens up and lays out all accounts for me, when they are due and all passwords, etc. When finished, I close it up. And since I rarely go anywhere anymore, I am always around to pay the bills.

At this point I am just looking for the easiest, simple solution to integrate bill paying online (with some handwritten checks) and some bookkeeping chores.

Robert

[Lee Michaels]

Lee? WhatTheFuck? ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~

OK, OK, Sorry about that. I guess I am feeling particularly sensitive this morning. I should have known that you weren't being nasty, just tasteless, or something.

I promise not to go off on anybody else for the rest of the day. :)

[Lee Michaels]

Point take. Apology posted elsewhere.

[nailshooter41]

What version are you using?

What a great memory!! I had forgotten all about that stooopid error on their part. Now I remember that it made them a laughing stock for at least a couple of years.

Can you do job costing by invoice with Quicken H&O? I want to keep the entries in the general ledger, but be able to tag them to be able to pull them out for a report on a larger job.

Also, I can't find out if it has any provision for home office entries. I know Quicken "Premier" does, and they make it a point to sell that. But even though they recommend the Q HO for small business, they don't advertise whether that account module is in there or not. Since moving from a corporation to a LLC, my accountant has advised me that part of my home (and all of my shop) can be expensed.

Do you bill from Q HO? Do you manage your accts. rec. and payable from there?

Inquiring minds need to know, Leon! After all, you are the only one that has hands on, front line experience with Q HO.

Any reason why? What reports does it generate that you don't care for?

Personally, I think it is a good idea to be cautious of these programs. I remember the Excel scandal when it couldn't add and move numbers accurate on large spreadsheets. I remember when QuickBooks had several accounting errors, including not only math, but the way they handled accounts. Almost all of them goof up now and then.

I would certainly appreciate your input, Leon.

Robert

[-MIKE-]

Cart Blanche, gentlemen!

:-)

[Leon]

Do you have Roboform 2 Go on a flash drive????? After the hurricane and being with out electricity for 11 days. it was difficult at best to access bank accounts on line.

Sandisk sells flash drives that are U3 compatible. U3 is a program that resides on the flash drive and lets you down load and install FireFox, Thunderbird, and Roboform 2 Go, to name just a few, on the flash drive. If you loose that computer or electricity and need to use a friends computer to do your banking the U3 programs allow you to do so with out leaving any trace of you being on that computer. You can sync your favorites/Bookmarks, and Roboform files to the flash drive and only have to take the flash drive to any other computer and you are good to go.

[Leon]

----- Original Message ----- From: Newsgroups: rec.woodworking Sent: Sunday, December 07, 2008 3:29 PM Subject: Re: The ugly side of business - long

2007, and a have used a couple of previous versions. The laterand some of the lesser versions allow you to scan documents or down load documents to attach to your transactions in the register. This is handy for a quick look and reprint of the document if you need to do so.

That "FLAW" was inexcusable IMHO.

"I think" you can keep track of expenses, remember I supliment with a spread sheet? I am not sure if you can actually pin any of them to an actual customer invoice. That said, you could put the customer invoice number in the memo section of the register when making an expense entry and probably generate a report that looks for that invoice number in the memo field.

It has always been my understanding that with each upgrade in Quickem that you move to, you carry along all the features of the lesser version. IIRC Premiere is a step down. If you are wanting to keep track of home office expenses you could create an account for that. I keep my vehicles value in seperate accounts for net worth reports.

I only invoice. When the customer pays in full or partially I receive the payment and attach to the outstanding balance on that invoice.

LOL,,, I hope my answers have not been too simple however I don't want to lead you to believe the the program will do something that it may not do. I think with some creative thinking you can probably get it to do what you want it to do.

Compared to the now 22 year old Dollars & Sence program that I used many years ago, reports tend to be way too complicated to generate. Dollars & Sence knew what you needed to know, Quicken is still a little lost in that catagory. That said, if you know exactly what you want you can create and save just about any report that you want to come up with. IMHO Quicken does not actually have standard accounting reports readily available, you have to think them up for yourself. If you are using Premiere and were happy with that, you should not have a problem with H&O. Bassicly I use the spread sheet reports for quick reference and to act as a way to verify the Quicken results.

:~) I am still using Lotus 123, 1997 version.

Gosh Robert, not a problem at all, I hope my answers are of some help.

[Robatoy]

I should not have assumed that all of us have been approached by Nigerians who have 20 million in the bank and need MY help to get it out. All I would have to do to get 2 of that 20 mil, is to show good faith by sending them 200 grand and my password and account information or some such crap. Anyway, nothing sadder than a joke falling flat on it's face, eh? Better luck next time.. But, but 'tasteless???' I ooze of taste, bro'. =3Do)

[dpb]

steve robinson wrote: ...

But of course that doesn't fit their interests of trying to lock in customers. They, like MS have fallen prey to the problem there isn't a large enough volume of new customers to generate the require revenue level so their only way to make up revenue is by turning the product into a continuous revenue stream by sunsetting features, "upgrades" and online service charges.

If I were seriously looking other than for the aforementioned way of simply using Excel or another spreadsheet to mimic a ledger, I'd look at what there might be in the open source arena--I don't know that there is anything competitive in features or not, but I'd surely do most everything I could to avoid Intuit and their ilk.

--

[dpb]

...

I was asking how your CPA/tax guy charges -- does he have a flat fee for preparation of your annual return or is it on an hourly rate including data entry, audit, preparation, etc., etc., ...

What he does and how he charges might influence how I tried to provide the data. My guy just does a flat fee from the summary info; if I wanted more detail analysis from him I'd have to provide more info and pay the piper.

That is so. QB is somewhat more powerful in that regard if you really do use those reports. I don't much but do have the facility by entering the detail.

That would be the strongest sell for living w/ the other aspects of Intuit but it is a bugger if you're more than a braindead computer user that likes to be able to control how stuff works and interacts w/ your computer and the outside world (as I have gathered you are from past).

...

That comparison from year-to-year is one of the things the CPA does automatically except only on the tax data.

It's also why I'd be sorta' tempted to use the Excel format because one can then do any comparison one chooses (at the cost of having to develop the categories and some coding effort, of course). It depends on how much detail you really feel you need.

...

That part I don't know about -- as noted, I'm still using QB 2000 and it has the ability to export to Excel and import iif files. The only thing I don't have that I would like (but not sufficiently to upgrade to get it) would be the API that has some additional hooks that allow for automated transaction editing that can't be done via iif files. And, while still consulting, there wasn't sufficient flexibility in the QB invoices to supply the data in the format my primary client requested nor for pricing for their proposals so had to use Excel for them anyway. But, since they provided Excel macro workbooks, of the proper form, that wasn't such a big deal for a single invoice/month. If had a lot of clients, it could have been a hassle.

That's so...it's a big hassle for sure. Wish I knew a really decent answer.

--

[Mark & Juanita]

I've been using Moneydance for personal finances. Not opensource, but they can import and export Quicken files (most accounting packages are able to do this). Works great for personal finances and is portable to Linux, Window, and Mac systems. However, it won't do what the OP was asking as far as business application (at least I don't think so, it might be worth his while to take a quick look).

To check out open source software, take a look at: and

Icewalkers is more oriented toward linux, but some of the java-based software may be multi-platform.

[J. Clarke]

There is GnuCash. I have no idea if it is any good or not.

[Larry W]

I'd only comment that historically, the double entry accounting system was devised as a way to catch clerical and arithmetic errors. If the books didn't balance, you knew there was an error somewhere. On a computer, there seems to be much less need for that kind of check.

[nailshooter41]

This could be most handy when managing receipts. From time to time I go places like HF, or even Big Lots to buy business related items such as nitrile gloves, cheapie throw away touch up brushes, etc., that require a check or cash. Having been through a couple of full office audits, the IRS really doesn't tolerate all that crap of having a box of receipts they can rummage through. The easier and the faster information retrieval is, the better. I like the scanned, attached receipt idea a lot.

AHA! The way I keep track of my invoices in my word processor would work there as well. To make sure I can find them easily, I always save the file (invoice) with the first five letters of the person's name, then add a numeric date (when it was generated) and a XXX of numbers in case I have to generated separate or multiple invoices on the same day. So a client's invoice has my company initials, INV for invoice and the info. Example: PRCINV Smith 120808 001 It looks cryptic, but it really isn't. And I could set Quicken to search for anything with "Smit" in it when setting up a report and still keep my naming sequence consistent with my current method.

Premiere is a step down, or at least sideways. Q HO is supposed to have all Quicken offers in this line of programs.

Excellent. That sould make it easy enough to tie into an accounts receivable column to generate outstanding balances owed.

Will it wash my truck? Just kidding... I appreciate you not "selling" the program. It sounds like it will do what I need. And after reading the comment here, it looks like there is support from actual hands on users, which makes it unusual for a piece of software like this. Just in case it will help you, here it is:

:~) I am still using Lotus 123, 1997 version.

OK... now I wasn't expecting that! Give me a minute to clean the coffee off my monitor! And I thought >> I Gosh Robert, not a problem at all, I hope my answers are of some help.

I appreciate you taking the time to post a detailed response, Leon. And rest assured, your answers are a great help. I think I will download the Q HB online trial in the next week or two and dive in.

Robert

[nailshooter41]

Took accounting classes in college, and I agree, it isn't that hard to do a simple company's books. They KEY though, it is to get all the information in the right places, correctly notated in the right entry position, and easy for your tax preparer to manipulate if needed. As I said before I did keep my books by hand, but there just isn't any reason (to me) to it anymore. A General Ledger by hand, a trial balance sheet, then a balance sheet by hand, monthly status reports by hand, etc. can really chew up some time. Then you have to input your results into another program to print them out as well.

On a properly set up bookkeeping program, this takes just minutes for everything.

My Accountant charges flat fees for certain reports, and for different types of reports. However, phone calls are different. She charges $125 an hour for good phone, and a half hour is $65. Around here, that is about par unless you find someone that is looking for bookkeeping work or is just getting started.

The advantage of presenting my data in a recognized data format to my tax person is that she can review my procedures for anomalies and for errors. She considers this part of her tax data review chores and is computed into the flat fee she charges for my tax returns. She will not review any data entered on long green spreadsheets for free, and if she doesn't review the data she will use the account summaries as presented for tax preparation. It is so easy for her to review on the computer she goes through it quickly. Hence, no charge.

The other aspect is that she is able to directly import my data into her tax preparation program (she used Peachtree or Intuit products) and that saves her the input time. The two programs I am looking at allow for "an accountant review" in which she can change/manipulate/ correct entries as needed from her software (in other words, it's not a totally proprietary format) to do tax forecasting analysis.

As simple as my current bookkeeping needs are at this time, I don't think it should be necessary to call anyone for a simple set up. I previously used Quicken 4 after deciding to move my books to computer, but that was in the early 90's. It was wonderful. I will never go back to the old green ledger, nor will I go back to designing spreadsheets and doing cell references, and learning how to write cell formulas to generate simple reports. I have spent too many hours figuring out "cannot resolve circular differences" messages when designing my estimating spreadsheets for projects.

I think that's really the key. If it is simple and easy to use, it won't be a chore.

But... if I am reading it right Lee, it is really strongly geared towards home users to manage home expenses, personal investment portfolios, etc. It gets good reviews.

But... if you can get a program that does all that for you, you will not need to spreadsheet a particular event. And if it will perform a particular operation in line with the most popular methods of the day, why would you want to do data entry (and risk mistakes) twice? Plus, the lure of easy reporting is pretty strong. If you can get a template that suits your needs, you have now gotten away from burning another block of time (although in some cases maybe a small one) that you could use for something else.

Plus, I REALLY like the ease of having all my information in any format I want at my fingertips at any time. No books or ledgers, no manual lookups, no manual information compiling or number crunching, nothing along those lines. Talk about a time saver...

Just my thoughts.

Robert