the first power tool

Leon wrote in news:md2dnXvPv_eM30 snipped-for-privacy@giganews.com:

I'd agree with you that water powered (and horse powered) lathes came before steam powered (and all of them well before electric lathes).

It's probably worth noting, tho, that demand for lathes to make anything other that light stuff like chair spindles was pretty minimal prior to the invention of the steam engine and consequent Industrial Age, so water powered lathes would not have been very common.

John

Electric Comet wrote in news:mqte58$o75$1 @dont-email.me:

Pretty sure water predates wind as a power source for milling grain and stuff (the Greeks and Romans had water mills), but purely as a power source you'd have to count sails on boats, I think, and those go back to the ancient Egyptians if not even further back.

John

Also at Grand Coulee. The water is used for irrigation, recreation and power generation.

I think so too, a power feed system.

Exactly

I suspect Sir Flinders Petrie would take issue with your assessment of minimal demand for lathes prior to the steam engine. ;-) (last paragraph)

Perhaps the circular saw dates back much, MUCH further than has been discussed thus far? Exhibit 5:

On 8/17/2015 6:13 PM, Spalted Walt wrote: Snip

Don't say that too loudly. Did you find a patent? LOL

And at Smith Mtn Reservoir in VA (as well as several other pumped-storage facilities)

OK, forgot which it was; Amish came out...Either way, she _still_ wasn't first!!

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Well, the data _can_ all be true (and most of what was posted here was as far as the facts of _what_ and dates; it's the other claims of trying to establish "firstest" that are applied external of actual fact that are suspect. But, of course, when it's pretty clear that the person some are claiming to hold the honor wasn't yet born when it's also pretty clear that there were such already in existence is pretty easy to refute logically. Once it's on the internet, however, it has the property that it "shall live forever in infamy"--it's just the nature of the beastie.

I don't have any problem whatsoever following the meaning...I don't doubt it was intended _primarily_ to cut beams but it had the flexibility to "direct the pieces against the saw, agreeable to _any_ line wanted to be cut." All it takes is orientation of the workpiece.

And just for fun, where did the information about the British patent come from? Was it the internet?

seems like the right thing to do how can that happen

Pump storage is not unique to the South Pacific. It's not unheard of in the US.

No, water power is really solar power.

This makes no sense unless there is some other cheap source of energy that can't be easily throttled, nearby (like a nuke).

I dunno. It seems unusual but...

I don't think they have that much control over the hydroelectric generation. They build a damn, water level rises and they harness the flow to generate needed power. If their capacity exceeds their needs and the needs of other areas or power companies tied into their production, what can they do? Surely they can cut out the generators and stop production and just let the water bypass the turbines. They can't stop the water flow or it will cause flooding.

I liken the Colorado "solution" to a storage battery. They are charging up a power source capable of providing, perhaps, additional hydroelectric capacity during peak demand or, alternatively (as someone mentioned), provide water for irrigation. Simple case (or maybe not so simple logistically) of making the most of what they have?

Not to mention screaming users down stream.

krw wrote in news:qv45talkq7anukj0cerhgtd3m9hoi7t54l@

It's generally the case with steam plants (coal fired, nuclear, whatever) that they can't be run efficiently at lower power outputs. So where possible, it makes sense to size the steam plant at, say 90% of maximum demand, run the steam plant at

(to Unquestionably's point, yes, hydro is easily controlled. Unlike a steam plant where there's typically only one turbine, hydro plants usually have multiple turbines that can be cut in and out, and running them at less than full capacity isn't as inefficient as it is with a steam turbine).

John

How would you suppose the 10% is stored, batteries?

Hydro plants, whether pumped storage or natural reservoirs, have the chief characteristic that the power generation can be adjusted rapidly by adjusting the flow through the penstocks.

For this reason, hydro plants are used as 'peakers', i.e. plants that are brought on-line to supply generation during peak usage periods and to quickly adjust to variable generation supplies (solar, wind) while the baseload plants run at optimal efficiency.

Pumped storage will use electricity during off-prime periods when the cost is less to pump water into the reservoir, and during prime periods will use that water to supply peak generation needs.

Some pumped storage alternates on a daily basis between pumping and generation, while others (e.g. San Luis Reservoir) stores water in the wet months for power use during the dry summer months (with the advantage that the released water is subsequently used for irrigation in the central valley or for delivery to the LA basin via the California Aquaduct).

Last decade (dry years are obvious in the plot):

In other cases (trinity->whiskeytown->shasta->keswick) the same water may be used four or five times for generation before it reaches the ocean or central valley.