I'm sure there are deals to be had (the recent gloats as evidence) but
I didn't see any real deals when I was looking. There were a lot of
questionable deals too (e.g. $1000 for a delta hybrid that was
advertised as a Unisaw).
My opinion is to get as much saw for the money you are willing to
spend. For instance, I would prefer a Grizzly cabinet saw to a Jet or
Dewalt hybrid (4x4 legs) for the same price. I would prefer a hybrid
to a Saw Stop contractor style.
Cabinet saws have the solidity (is that a word) that just brings a
level of non-vibrating quality to the cut that can't be beat. A good
fence is a must but you can put a great fence on any saw nowdays.
Here is one for comments. Here is the heirarchy as I see it in terms
of cost and value.
Top to bottom:
Saw Stop Cabinet saw
Hybrid's (Jet or Dewalt or maybe Craftsman) Sorry, I still love
FYI: I think the biggest way that Grizzly keeps their prices lower is
because they don't sell through a dealer\distributro so they have a
20-30% advantage, although less availability but with the internet
they are doing just fine. So they might be one step below Delta in
quality but that is a pretty small step these days with the gap
closing in both directions.
Especially if you are a beginner and price is not as important as staying
safe, consider no other than SawStop. They come in Contractor, Cabinet, and
Comercial versions. The price difference between any of those and the
cheapest comparable style saw is way way less that the cost to go to the
If I wear out my Jet cabinet saw the SawStop will probably be my next.
With proper dust collection a cabinet type saw will be the best bet.
;~) The single most asked question in this group that I paste this rubber
stamp answer to.
Both saws will make all the same cuts. Some easier on the left tilt, some
easier on the right tilt. Strictly personal preference. But if you need to
be steered one way or the other,
Are you right handed?
Get the left tilt.
1. Commonly the Left tilt has the bevel wheel on the right side and is
easily turned with your Right hand.
2. Left tilt can rip a narrow bevel with out having to move the fence to the
left side of the blade.
3. Left tilt allows the blade arbor nut to be removed with your right hand.
4. Left tilt allows your to remove the arbor nut and turn it in the
direction that you would expect.
5. With a Left tilt, when both edges of a board are beveled, the sharp point
bevel is up on the fence when cutting the second bevel as opposed to the
bottom of the fence where it might slip under.
6. RIGHT tilt if you are left handed. The bevel wheel is commonly on the
left side of the saw.
7. RIGHT tilt if you "must" use the fence distance indicator when using a
stacked dado blade set. The blades stack left, away from the fence. The
indicator remains accurate. On the left tilt, the blades stack towards the
fence and makes the indicator inaccurate. In this case use a tape measure to
set the fence distance.
8. RIGHT tilt allows you to remove the arbor nut with your left hand but the
nut must be turned clockwise to loosen. Bassackwards to normalcy.
If considering a cabinet saw, with wide 50" rip capacity.
The Left tilt will most often afford you the most storage room under the
right table extension. The RIGHT tilt has an access door in that location
that will demand room to open. The left tilt allows you to have access to
the motor and or the insides of the cabinet from the more open left side of
the saw with out having to crawl under the right extension table. Very nice
if you ever happen to drop the arbor nut inside the cabinet. If you are
considering getting a replacement saw and considering going to the opposite
tilt this time consider that the miter slots may not be the same distance
from the blade when comparing a left to right tilt saw. This may or may not
be of concern but something to consider.
With this all in mind, more and more manufacturers are building only in
right tilt versions as they tend to be more user friendly and safer in some
Aside from the bevelled edge you did mention, you've centred most of your
argument around the arbour nut. There's much more practical reasons for left
tilt other than that which I'd consider a minor concern. After all, how
often does the blade get changed by the average woodworker?
1) The most important reason for left tilt (which alluded to) with a
bevelled edge on a left tilt and that is that it wouldn't bind under the
bottom edge of the fence where there's space to get caught, minimal as it
2) The second thing is that when cutting a bevelled edge, it's leaning over
the blade cutting it not and not prone to getting trapped under an angled
blade leaning over it causing increased potential for kickback.
3) A third reason is when cutting a bevelled edge, possible tear-out is
consigned to the inner edge and not the sharp edge, making for sharper
tear-out free bevel cuts.
4) Another minor consideration is that a tilted motor takes up space and a
left tilt would take up cabinet space under extension wing area where space
is often wasted anyway. A few inches floor space makes a big difference to
many space limited woodworkers.
All of these things are considerations to avoid when using a right tilt
table saw with the fence on the right side of the blade.
On Tue, 08 Sep 2009 16:42:50 +0000, John Wood wrote:
Everybody's got their own opinion on this one. I'd rank them Sawstop,
Powermatic, General, Jet, Delta, Grizzly. That's just cabinet saws.
If you don't count the safety features, Powermatic is just as good as
I haven't checked out the "new" Unisaw. That might change my rankings.
Steel City has/had a small cabinet saw that has a downsized motor so it
will run on 110. I liked the looks of it pretty well, but both the saw
and the company are new so there's no history. Check:
If a contractors saw will do you, Home Depot has a pretty good bang for
Intelligence is an experiment that failed - G. B. Shaw
And then, there's other considerations for some people. My main
consideration is that I use a wheelchair and to date, General is the *only*
manufacturer that I know of that builds a lowered line of big hardware.
(without increased prices I might add). I closely examined a Sawstop at one
point and it contains too much hardware to lower the table to anything
approaching comfortable working height from a sitting position. Couple my
need with people who may need to or like to sit at their machinery or who
might be of lowered stature and that consideration is amplified.
On Tue, 08 Sep 2009 18:40:15 -0500, Larry Blanchard
I have the Grizzly 1023S and I am very happy with it, and yet I
believe your rankings are about right.
The OP's main criteria is durability, and all these saws are going to
last a long time.
I suggest the OP should put safety on the criteria list. Get a saw
with a riving knife, which all models released in the last year or so
have. Older models like my Grizz 1023 don't have one.
And if you can afford the Sawstop, get that.
There is one other thing. A cabinet saw is going to give you the
durability you are looking for; more so than a hybrid or contractors
The latest versions of the Delta Unisaw, Powermatic PM2000, Sawstop
cabinet saws are going in the range of $2500-$3300.
Right now, the Griz G0691 is selling for $1300 mail order with free
shipping. I've seen some very favorable user reviews online. Good
riving knife system, good fence, smooth running, etc.
Apparently the Shop Fox mobile base isn't solid enough for the weight
of this saw. If you want a mobile base, don't get the Shop Fox.
But still, that leaves you with about $1200 or more for wood or more
At the prices today, I would have bought the Griz G0691 and indeed was
just about to when Amazon had a sale on the Unisaw. I got the Unisaw
with Biesemeyer 50" fence for $1600 vs. just shy of $1500 for the
Yes, that's sure a good argument for the Griz. ...one that would have
On Wed, 09 Sep 2009 18:01:58 -0500, Larry Blanchard
Yeah, I forgot about Steel City. $1299 for a granite top 3 HP, 50"
rails, riving knife, at Highland Woodworking. Shipping is extra.
Sounds like a good deal to me.
I like having a cast iron top, myself, so I can stick magnets to it. I
don't know if the flatter granite surface is that much better or not.
At least it won't rust.
I had been considering the Grizzly G1023SLW, now I see this G0691.
From what I see, the first one has a routing table built into the extension
table while the latter saw has a riving knife. What is it that I don't see?
Should I assume the G0691 is better because it's a newer model?
I have 220 service so that's not an issue. I'd sort of like the routing
and a riving knife and a mobile base! :) Does another cabinet saw come
to mind meeting this criteria?
IMHO, the LAST thing you want to do is ask a table saw surface to do
dual duty by mounting a router in it.
It's tough enough trying to keep table saw surfaces free and clear to
do their designed task.
No point in making the job any tougher than it already is.
The G0691 with 50" capacity and what appears to be a standard 3HP
Leeson motor, looks pretty good, especially at the current price.
The next step up IMHO, would be a 5 HP motor.
Especially when you leave a raised router bit in the router and then slide
the saw fence into the damned thing. Broke the carbide off the router bit
and dented my nice new add-on fence. I cursed for days. Fortunately, it was
a cheap 1/4" router bit and the router shaft didn't get bent.
Aside from that, flatness is your key concern. If it's a cast iron wing like
I have, then you could probably hang ten routers off it and it will stay
flat. If it's a wood or laminate construction, then most any router is going
to warp it eventually.
On Wed, 09 Sep 2009 22:44:40 -0400, Upscale wrote:
That's a good point for those who use their tablesaw on a daily basis.
But for the occasional hobbyist who's cutting stock one day, surfacing it
another, routing another, finishing another, etc. it works fine.
Especially if said hobbyist is cramped for space. DAMHIKT.
I never leave my router in the table. It stresses the table, the router
plate, and the bolts.
Mine was built as a torsion box and replaces the left wing on the table
saw. Didn't warp in about 15 years. Maybe because I didn't leave the
router in it.
But that's all in the past. I have a new (old) tablesaw and my router
table is now on folding brackets on the end of a flip top tool cart that
holds my planer and thickness sander. Like I said - cramped for
Intelligence is an experiment that failed - G. B. Shaw
On Thu, 10 Sep 2009 10:55:59 -0500, Larry Blanchard
A router lift helps a lot too.
Mine's bolted to the lift. It's the lifts job to make everything
right. I can't believe there is any significant stress or deflection
of the bolts, or the lift itself. A crappy MDF table, perhaps, but my
router table is reinforced pretty well.
I'm not exactly cramped (two car garage) but the router table always
seems to be in the way. The saw gets priority on space, over
Just another data point.
Looks like Delta is still offering the 10" Contractor's Saw.
36-981 is listed for under $1K retail.
30" rails, 1-3/4 HP, 115/230, Unifence with cast wings and MDF table
Throw in a mobile base and you are good to go.
Mine was a better saw than I deserved.
I "knew" someone was going to say something like that--and your point is
It just looks so, so, so... convenient. I have read at least half of Bill
"Woodworking With The Router"--which I thought was enough for someone
who didn't own a router, and he went through the design of a nice router
table in excruciating
detail. It was a good read. Since then I inherited two Craftsman routers
from the mid 70's (1/2 and 1 HP I think, are they worth messing with?).
I'm tempted to buy,
someday, the likes of the DeWalt 1 3/4 HP Plunge and Fixed Router (Combo
I think every day about the other projects (benches) you've got me started
on . I grew
up with a "general purpose" bench, and I'll make one of those--with drawers
shelves, a machinists vise, and a place to sit (I sketched a detailed
picture), and also
a "minimal" woodworkers bench. Don't laugh about the "sitting down"
alot of things in luthiery that I can't imagine trying to do standing up--I
need or want
the added support/stability of the elbows I guess, and I can't imagine
trying to "draw"
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