Spraying Paint

[Tom Watson]

I've got a job in the shop that needs an excellent quality paint finish. I usually use pigmented lacquer but the customer insists that I use the same paint as was used for the trim in the room where the piece is going in. Latex trim paint. Yechh.

I'm trying to view this as an opportunity to get a piece of equipment that will spray cabinet grade paint finishes but can also be used to spray exterior house paint. I've got lots of use for the exterior house paint ability at my place - as my wife reminds me every time I sit down for more than ten minutes.

I know nothing about this.

I hate painting.

I've seen the painters use spray equipment on jobsites for trim and walls but never paid much mind to it. I was just happy if they didn't spray my work and tools.

I've tried to thin paint for spraying in my three stage HVLP setup but I'm afraid that the level of thinning required compromises the coating chemistry.

I need some help from the paint spraying mavens on the group.

Regards, Tom. Thomas J. Watson-Cabinetmaker Gulph Mills, Pennsylvania

[Gfretwell]

I shot a louvered wood door with latex. It was actually not a problem using a regular spray gun. I thinned the paint a little with water. This was a satin finish. It may have been harder with a gloss. Just practice on some similar scrap until you get the thinning right. It took me a couple tries.

[Bob S.]

Whoda thunk...me giving advice to a master craftsman.......;-)

I share your disdain for painting and I found it rather weird that the one response (so far) states he had good results using a "regular" spray gun and that you were having to thin the paint to much using HVLP. Something is amiss here.

Last summer I had 40 cabinet doors to prime and paint and tried using a regular spray gun (tried several nozzle sizes, etc.) and had very poor results no matter what I tried (thinning, FlowTrol, etc.). Finally talked to a pro painter and he said I need a HVLP spray outfit to get good results with latex. Research on the web (AW and FWW sites as examples) showed he was correct. I don't recall all the details but there are a number of articles covering HVLP systems and how to use them.

Since I wasn't obligated to final finishing these doors (sister-in-law was), I did the priming using the regular spray gun and the first finish coat using a quality brush and FlowTrol. I must admit, that after sanding out the primer and then applying the first coat of finish paint by brush to the panels, it looked like it was sprayed on - thanks to the FlowTrol. Second coat was done by others....(oh well...)

Tom, I would suspect there may be a problem with your system 'cause the experts say HVLP is the only way to get latex paint down properly for a "furniture grade" finish. Maybe the wrong nozzle, pressure setting, cleaning......???

Bob S.

[Lew Hodgett]

I also knew nothing about the subject and also hate to paint; however, like you needed to learn.

A little background:

Shooting 2-part linear poly on a boat is probably the most difficult paint job possible with the possible exception of commercial airplanes.

A mirror finish without any runs is the minimum standard.

LP materials are in excess of $100/gal, even if you get a good discount, so you don't want to make mistakes.

The standard for that job is a DeVilbiss JGA gun, a 2 qt remote pressure pot and a connecting hose.

Expect to pay about $400-$450 for the package, even with a trade discount.

You will need a compressor that can deliver at least 15 SCFM on a continuous basis.

I have a 5 HP, two stage unit with an 80 gal reservoir that does the job.

Package does a great job IMHO.

Think of it like buying a good cabinet saw.

It only hurts once.

HTH

[Tom Watson]

Thanks for taking the time to post that thorough reply, Preston.

Your experience pretty much mimics mine. I've tried maxing out the viscosity reducers and played with the tips and caps but it comes down to the same thing that you speak of - it's too damned slow.

I don't have a problem getting a good finish with my HVLP rig. I have a problem getting a good finish laid on before I starve to death.

Thanks for the info.

(watson still searches for the grail...)

Regards, Tom. Thomas J. Watson-Cabinetmaker Gulph Mills, Pennsylvania

[Bob S.]

Just make her some wooden teeth and get the compressor.... Just tell her "If it was good enough for George Washington...."

Bob S.

[Charlie Self]

Tom Watson responds:

Orthodontist, Tom, not just any old dentist. I do recall that payment book. Thicker than the Manhattan phone directory, IIRC.

The same office is now serving two of my grandkids. Prices are higher, with more options--clear braces, for Pete's sake!

The business seems to have a different owner, but there is no lack of new clients. Something like four dental chairs, a dozen seats in the waiting room, and usually all chairs full and a double load waiting.

Amazing.

Charlie Self

"Men willingly believe what they wish." Julius Caesar, De Bello Gallico

[Tom Watson]

I don't know what kinda dentist the sumbitch is but the sumbitch put a big bite on my monthly budget.

Sumbitch!

Regards, Tom Tom Watson - Woodworker Gulph Mills, Pennsylvania

[Nova]

Convince him that he needs some custom made furnishings and reciprocate.

-- Jack Novak Buffalo, NY - USA

[Sam Krenov]

reciprocate.

You want to saw the guy in half just for being a dentist? Man, you guys in Buffalo are tough.

[Charlie Self]

Yeah, well on the first part. I'm getting closer to 6' all the time. Not too long ago, I was 6' 2".

Try building the guy an ipe desk, or Brazilian cherry, or some such. That's a good box in which he can maybe store 10-15 grand on its way to your pockets.

Charlie Self

"Men willingly believe what they wish." Julius Caesar, De Bello Gallico

[nospambob]

[Ron Magen]

Tommy boy, Just wait till you pay off that 'book' and they decide to take up HOCKEY.

Beat the rush; tell him you'll make a nice engraved sign so he can advertise at the local rink !!

Ron Magen Backyard Boatshop {We share our home with two Malamutes for 'many' reasons}

[Larry Jaques]

On Thu, 11 Sep 2003 11:26:04 -0400, [e-mail] pixelated:

Makes ya wonder what kind of person it takes to become a rectal voyeur, doesn't it?

They do small scrimshaw work of sorts. And although they do have a few hand tools, they're Normites, all.

--============================================-- Growing old is mandatory; growing up is optional. ---

Comprehensive Website Development

[BurlaT3]

I know that this sounds crazy but when I first opened my cabinet shop in the mid 80's, I spent what little money I had on sub-standard tools and didn't have anything but an old Crapsman cup gun. When I wanted to start finishing my built-ins instead of letting the painters butcher them, I went looking and realized the only way for me to get an adequate spray rig was to build it. I went from garage sale to garage sale looking for a pressure cooker with the screw down locks but couldn't find one. Finally I sprang for all new parts, built it, and I still use the rig occasionally.

This is a brief description of what I used and what I did with it. New 2

1/2 gallon pressure cooker (big enough to set a gallon can into to make it easier to clean up.) Brass fittings and a poly supply line for the pick-up tube (the grey stuff for under sinks) A regulator, 2 dial pressure guages, about 15' of 1/4" air hose and an equal amount of a hose my local paint store said would handle laquer thinner. I removed the factory safety pressure relief valve and the factory pressure indicator and drilled and retapped the holes to recieve my brass fittings. One short brass nipple with a T on top - one leg of the T with a quick connect male end to supply the pressure, and one leg with a regulator and hose going to the gun to supply disbursement and delivery air. The other hole (closer to the middle of the pot) I took a brass nipple and rethreaded so the threads went futher up and when installed in the lid of the cooker left enough for connecting my pickup tube, and above the lid I connected the laquer proof line to run the liquid to the gun. Then I went out and bought a DeVilBis (sp?) JGA502 and hooked it all up and the only thing that I ever changed to this day was I got a different tip and needle set than the one that came with the gun. I can't remember which came with but paints like latex or even oil base take a bigger oriface than laquer.

I pressure tested this rig to about125 lbs (hiding behind a block wall) then when I let the pressure out I could actually see the pot get smaller so I never pressurized over about 60 lbs again. I have had this pot on a hot plate to heat finishes and the next place for it is for spray adhesives. I think that I should beable to cap the inlet port and store my adhesive right in the pot. Now I have an airless rig now that I use for most things and a cup gun that covers the rest.

Prices have changed alot since then and today, given the same set of circumstances, I probably would not go to all this again, but the Binks rig I wanted with the gun I wanted and got and all the accesories that I would have needed cost about $800 back then and I built mine with all new parts for under $300 including the gun (no extra tip or needle). I think the experience of building it was worth much more than the money I saved, though. I can't imagine you wanting to go through all this but if you do I would gladly give you any pointers I could.

Good luck and good finishing