Screws vs dowels

Dowels are cool...but require clamps. Screws are quick and one can hide the head with a plug.

Your call. (I use both.) I have found, however, that smaller spindles work better with dowels. There is a smaller chance of splitting the wood.

Depends upon (among other things) how good you are, and how fussy you are.

Dowels require precise fits; screws are much less demanding. On the other hand, dowels are invisible, but screws are pretty obvious unless you do an incredible job of matching color and grain on your plug.

I use pocket screws where they can't be seen, but wouldn't consider using a screw with a plug where it could be seen. I only use dowels when biscuits or pocket screws aren't possible. But once I get my domino...!

If you really want to adhere to the "principles" of "arts and crafts style", neither ... traditional mortise and tenon is the way to go, especially for the larger pieces.

There are some good books out on making Arts and Crafts pieces, the "Shop Drawing" series by Robert Lang is a good place to get a sense of traditional construction for this style.

Ooooo . . . no, no, no! You misunderstand me. I have seen many arts & crafts pieces where the dowels are an actual feature - either by coloration, grain orientation or protrusion. Hiding them is something I do NOT want to do. Even if a screwed joint is necessary, I would make it so the plug is visible.

I guess the question I wanted to ask was, everything else being equal, is a dowel as strong as a screw?

FoggyTown

Are you certain those visible components were not "pinned" M&T joints?

That depends ... what type of join/joint are you planning on using a screw?

I expect you are mistaken. They often have exposed tenons, but no furniture features conspicuous plugs or dowels. Are are are simply ugly.

Dowels are more rigid than screws, but screws will hold even if a joint is busted. Does that make them stronger or weaker? Years ago I built a rather shoddy TV stand out of scrap, always wondered how strong it was. When I replaced it with something nicer, I tested it. With 300 pounds of weight on it the glued joints gave way, but I actually had to hit it repeatedly sideways with a sledge hammer to get it to fail for the nails. (I haven't used a nail, except to hold a back on, for a while now)

...

You might tell that to Sam Maloof and let him know he's been wrong all these years... :)

"There are many places in my furniture where a dowel or mortise-and-tenon joint just does not work because of the thinness of the wood; so I use screws. In effect the screw is a metal dowel. I am not a purist. .... I have no qualms about this."

--from Sam Maloof, Woodworker.

"...as an example, it's nothing more than an end grain to long grain glued joint, drilled through the rail with 3- to 4-inch screws pulling it tight. Then the screws are just plugged over with a rosewood or ebony plug for contrast. ..."

From Gary in KC, from having taken one of his classes on chairmaking...

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Should I see him I will tell him. Although the are likely to be unusual instances to the contrary, plugs are ugly. "If you can't make it attractive, make it conspicuously ugly"?

Makes me wonder if you know who Maloof is???

--

Ain't Maloof that old guy who can't cut a straight line, so he earns his living making rocking chairs for his wife?

Bill

I have a 50 lb. box of dry wall screws so you know what I use.

JR

Thank you for your opinion. That IS all it was, right?

Makes me wonder if anyone in here knows what "arts & crafts" is. Gothic revival? Medieval revival? One of the basic features is NO MECHANICAL FASTENINGS.

FoggyTown

First, you have to remember where he lives, that his pieces are considered "art", that "promotion" is a big part of success in that genre (I personally prefer Moser's less publicized/promoted work), and that he reportedly once admitted that he started using screws out of ignorance of other joinery techniques. :)

As much as I admire his work, and certainly not to detract from what he does, but if I wanted a "furniture joinery guru" to emulate, I think I'd go with Klausz.

I don't know about the fastenings but one characteristic ala Stickey was exposed joinery. Dowels aren't "exposed joinery".

And there must be some reason that they sell dowels in cherry, oak, etc...

I think that you've just answered your own question... unless dowels are considered Mechanical Fasteners..

mac

Please remove splinters before emailing

mac davis wrote in news: snipped-for-privacy@4ax.com:

because people buy them? Folks will buy almost anything.

What else explains Gary Knox Bennett?

Patriarch

No, a dowel is not a mechanical fastener. Screws, nails, brads, clips, etc. are.

Let me try restate the question.

In a project where screws would normally (and acceptably) be used to attach one piece of wood to another, is there anything lost (i.e. in strength or structural integrity) in using glued dowels instead of screws?

FoggyTown

It's certainly possible. Screws are metal, and have higher strength/size.

It's possible to invent scenarios where screws would hold better than dowels, because dowels of sufficient strength would not actually fit in the space required.

Chris