Making screws easier to remove next time!

[mm]

Pre. S. Is there such a thing as tempered aluminum?

So I got all the screws that I needed to out of the '69 Honda that hasn't been ridden since 1972, and I'm wondering if there is a way to make it easier the next time**. When I bought spark plugs last time, they gave me anti-sieze stuff, for a dollar, that is supposed to make the spark plugs not stick to the cylinder heads (especially maybe when the plugs are steel and the heads are aluminum, sort of like in many motorcycles where the screws are steel and the crankcases are aluminum.)

Can I, should I use this anti-sieze stuff when I reassemble the motorcycle? So it won't be stuck two years from now when I need to do something, or 20 years from now.

Or will this allow the screws and bolts to come out when I don't want them to?

Thanks.

**How I got it apart: They don't sell impact drivers at HD or Lowe's but they do have 2 basic models for sale at a small number of online sources. The easiest to buy from was JCWhitney, , because there are other things there for me to buy, like motorcycle tire irons, tail light pulsator, rear turn signal lights (this bike never had them)

JCW has 3 things worth buying.

1) A set of 13 or 16 bits for my old impact driver. I'd ruined 2 and now 3 of the 4 bits that came with it.

2) An impact driver pretty much just like the one I already have, that I also bought from JCW.

3) A bigger one, not in the printed catalog, that has a big red rubber grip, part of which makes it more unlikely that you will hit your hand with the hammer. It also comes with 8 bits, 2phillips, 2 slot, and both short and 2 inches long. The long ones are great. I didn't think I would like the driver especially however, but I do.

I also bought at harbor freight a set of 4 impact driver extension bars, 4 different lengths.

All this was still not enough for the right side, I think, and I ended up heating the side of the case where the threads are, with a propane torch. The Klymer manual says not to do this for 3 reasons. The only one I remember at the moment is not to lose temper, but is there such a thing as tempered aluminum? Anyhow, I don't think I heated anything much more than it would be if the engine were running, and it made it easier to get the screws out.

[David Nebenzahl]

mm spake thus:

I think the word is "seize". And yes, you can use a thin coat of grease on screws to make them easier to get out later.

[RBM]

You should use the correct product for the application, especially for high temperature conditions

[Rain]

[Rain]

[Doug Miller]

That'll work. Another option is stainless steel screws -- putting aluminum and carbon steel together causes the steel to corrode if it gets the least bit damp (even humidity is enough), but stainless steel won't have that problem.

[Bike Guy Joe]

Yes, aluminum has different "tempers"...if you warm it with a torch, you will be fine, don't get it smoking hot....it melts at 1200 degrees F.

DON'T use grease as an "anti-seize" compound, it will harden oe even bake in place and you'll have a mess.

You can buy a lifetime supply of anti-seize for 5-6 dollars.

[N8N]

Don't use stainless in any application where strength is critical (head bolts, suspension bolts, etc.) as 304 stainless is not as strong as a grade 5 fastener. Also any stainless screw will require anti-seize on the threads to prevent galling. this is not to say that stainless is bad however, lots of bolts on my '55 Stude have been replaced with stainless - just not critical ones as I described above.

nate

[Doug Miller]

Obviously strength is not critical in the areas where the OP is having a problem: the screws are going into aluminum. *Any* steel fastener, stainless or not, is stronger than aluminum, and if there's going to be a mechanical failure, it won't be in the steel.

[mm]

I hadn't heard of such a problem. It's just that I wondered why the stuff wasn't recommended more often, especially considering how hard it has been to get these screws out, the right and left crankcase covers, as well as things that are attached to the cover, the oil filter cover, and the ignition point cover. (interestingly, the exhaust pipe came off easily, even though it gets much hotter. I guess that is because both the stud and the nut are steel.)

So I figured the opposite problem of not coming loose when you try to unscrew it, is coming loose when you're not trying.

I'll have to look again if I have torque specifications even for the cover screws.

Definitely no discoloration, not while I was doing it** and not after it cooled. **I moved the torch around and could see the heated parts. Nothing glowed red either. :)

I really really don't want to take the engine out**, but I'll keep this in mind if I do. I want to go back and say that I did use penetrating oil on the screws too, starting a day in advance, but I still needed the impact driver in most cases, and the torch in more than half of those.

The penetrating oil didn't do any good I think, in the case of the three 50 or 55mm screws because the threads are so far from the screw heads.

Thanks.

Remove NOPSAM to email me..

[mm]

I have some graphite powder around somewhere (well it should be in the top left hand drawer of the work bench), but I've never heard about copper or nickle powder.

I thought I would just use what they sell for spark plugs in the auto parts store. It's grey and creamy, and in the case of what they pushed on me when I bought plugs, it was in a foil bag about the size of a sugar bag at a coffee shop. Good to use?

Remove NOPSAM to email me..

[Rain]

[Joe]

Stainless won't gall on aluminum. aluminum may gall on stainless though. :)

[Joe]

A quick lesson... The thread strength could be stronger than the "twist off" strength of any bolt you put in there... It all depends on how many threads you catch, whether the thread was cut or roll tapped, and some other (useless?) information to most folks...

Imagine you have a threaded (tapped) hole that is 1/4" deep with a 3/4" stainless bolt. You will likely strip the threads out before you break the bolt... Not make the hole 3" deep and fully threaded... The bolt will snap if tightened too much before the sum "shear point" of the threads is reached...

Stainless should be fine to use, but it brings a lot of problems along with it and I totally agree with another poster who said not to use it where strength is needed.

If you need strength, go with grade 5 black oxide. It's ugly, but rust somewhat resistant.

Want to learn more?

(My site)

(My site again - with drilling and some tapping reference tools)

Joe in Northern, NJ - V#8013-R

Currently Riding The "Mother Ship"

Ride a motorcycle in or near NJ?

Help Cure Cancer:

[Joe]

Bad form to reply to one's own post, but note that the 3" depth was supposed to be 13" depth.... Even at 3", the threads might shear off before the bolt broke - especially in aluminum.

Joe in Northern, NJ - V#8013-R

Currently Riding The "Mother Ship"

Ride a motorcycle in or near NJ?

Help Cure Cancer:

[mm]

Tbanks a lot to all you guys. I have a lot to think about and remember. I'm glad I asked before I was finished. So I only have about 10 screws to back out (one by one?) and put on something, and replace.

I forgot to say that I d>Pre. S. Is there such a thing as tempered aluminum?

[Bike Guy Joe]

Ideal.

Also screws going into aluminum get tightened to approx. 25 ft. lbs.

[ian field]

My own experience of using stainless bolts is that they loosen under vibration more readily than the regular steel ones.

[nospam]

Grease might be just the wrong thing in many applications. Alumslip or coppaslip from the Moly company are best.